Speaker 1 00:00:04 Live from the warehouse. This is the gig ready podcast.
Speaker 1 00:00:23 This is it. We're back. It's been a couple of weeks. Joe Mack. How you doing brother? I see, uh, I know, I know it's been some interesting few days in the world of live events, but, uh, overall, how you doing? Keep your head up over there in Portland
Speaker 3 00:00:37 Doing okay. Yeah, just a, you know, had, uh, had a nice vacation, uh, was looking forward to wrapping up here right after, uh, get things going. Had some, had some gigs in the tank, some were in the air, Riggs, Riggs are in the air, which is good. Um, but unfortunately, uh, uh, rigs have been canceled. So, so now what
Speaker 1 00:01:01 It's tough and that's, you know, and it's not all over the place thankfully, or hopefully not yet. Um, and today I wanted to chat a little bit about labor. Um, some markets are seeing a surge in, in, in events and things happening and then some markets haven't, uh, haven't yet gotten back to full steam yet. And so we brought in our buddy from Las Vegas, big fin productions, Mike Finn, uh, national labor supplier. Uh, they are located, they're expanding, they've got Orlando, Las Vegas, Utah. Uh, I think they have it Lanta. Mike, is there any city you're not in yet?
Speaker 4 00:01:43 Right now we got LA New York, Las Vegas, Utah, Orlando, Atlanta, and Miami. Uh, and we have talked to the expansion into Seattle, Dallas, and Arizona in the very near future. Huh.
Speaker 1 00:01:58 Awesome. Well, Mike Finn knows the labor market across the United States. Mike Finn. Mike is also at Disneyland right now. So if that is a, you know, a good omen, I hope of things to come. And some of the excitement happened. And Mike talked to us a little bit about what, what you're seeing right now in the labor market, across the country, uh, what the challenges are and then, uh, what the, what might be the bottlenecks at the moment?
Speaker 4 00:02:25 Sure, sure. Okay. So, uh, you know, obviously we opened up and it was like so many little views. We all went off like a rocket right. Shows started coming in across the country here, uh, started with some big rock shows in Las Vegas. So we could take our being out there to stadium, uh, followed by some big corporates, which I, I really enjoy seeing all those people out there. And, uh, we were sitting in the seats and being a part of the crowd for those students out there in Atlanta. Uh, they were currently working on, uh, Kanye shoe at Mercedes Dan stadium there in Atlanta as well. I mean, it came hard and fast, right? We're getting lots of calls for work all over the place. And we're just, we spent a lot of time during COVID wrangling up people, training recruiting, making sure what there'll be, we're ready for this onslaught that we all knew were coming.
Speaker 4 00:03:12 So we've been pretty well covered in the labor and technical position market. What I do see a shortage of happening in the near future here is flooring personnel. It seems like all the people that you know were diehard roadies and we're in it for life. They're all back to work at a, you know, they're booked out on these tours. So I feel like that's even a lot of openings right now for maybe some kids that have, you know, minor touring experience or just kind of want to get their feet wet and know the ropes, the business a little bit. I think now's a good time to get them out there on the road and just teach them the ways of getting the shows in and out fast safe
Speaker 1 00:03:50 For sure. I mean, the training is definitely going to be critical coming out of this. There's going to be a lot of new people. Um, Joe, what's happening up in the Northwest right now from a labor from a labor standpoint. Are you guys mostly, are you guys still kind of just quiet, you know, steady as it goes as it was for the last 12 months?
Speaker 3 00:04:09 Yeah, it's been, it's been pretty quiet. There's uh, there's been a few things there. Uh, I know there was the watershed festival out in the Gorge, uh, this last week. Um, there was some things at a casino, um, not too far from here, so, uh, and those, those have been like the first gigs, uh, that have happened, um, really up in this neck of the woods, short of, uh, you know, corporate zoom stuff. That's, there's a lot of that, um, in Seattle going on and have has been for for the last year. But, um, but yeah, it's, it's still really pretty quiet. Um, you know, I've, I've watched, uh, rolling loud and, uh, Lollapalooza and all these, these big festivals, um, kicking off, uh, but you know, looking at the numbers of Florida, um, it's not looking good. I'm, I'm curious to see what happens in Chicago and all the attendees that, that came out of Lollapalooza.
Speaker 3 00:05:08 Um, I know they were, they were really taking care. Uh, they required either vaccination and, or, um, uh, Clare, uh, COVID test every day you attended, they turned away 600 people on the first day of Lollapalooza. 90% showed up with their vaccine card and, or a clear test. So I'm hoping that there's not, you know, there's not a resurgence because of that, but, um, but you know, what we won't be have control over is the after parties and the outside the venue outside the S you know, offsite, offsite things. Uh, that's, that's where we could get in trouble with these big, uh, 400,000 people, uh, guest, uh, uh, festivals.
Speaker 1 00:05:54 Yeah. Um, Mike looking at just the labor standpoint in general, when people need labor. Of course, if they're in any of the, after mentioned cities, calling big fin productions is the wisest most sane course of action. But when they're looking, when they're looking for guys that are not in those cities, and they're trying to figure out how they're going to staff, some of these events that are coming back and they are coming back in force, I mean, I've felt the pressure, the drive, um, what are some of the things that those people should be looking at to find the best labor? Uh, especially since we've seen a decrease in people who are, are able to work and do what we need them to do in the industry right now.
Speaker 4 00:06:40 Okay. So, I mean, that's for, it's going to sound self-serving, but you know, I'm not just talking about me, I'm talking about any labor providers out there. I think that if you get, uh, if you get in a situation where you're in a market, you have a show and you just don't think it's going to be able to be staffed, uh, reach out to somebody that, you know, and trust. They might have some connections that you might not be looking at. Um, they might be able to travel people in. Okay. And, and just work that out at some kind of a base rate so that, you know, it might be a little more expensive than a normal, hourly, but at least your clients will have the personnel. They need to put these big shows on, you know, the skilled personnel to do it safely. And hopefully they know all the COVID protocol and they know how to make this thing happen. So, I mean, my answer there is just go find somebody that you trust and again, feel free to call us, but it doesn't have to be us like just somebody that you know is going to make sure your show is taken care of, uh, and, and make sure it goes on, you know, that's what we're here to do to make sure the show is happening. So get with somebody that's going to do that for you. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:07:41 Very true. I mean, I know that I've had a rough experience with a couple of other labor providers over the last two or three weeks with, you know, just not communicating effectively. It seems like they're kind of understaffed and they're not able to handle the, the level of, uh, you know, and it's small stuff. Thankfully we're talking, you know, two, three stagehands here for state chants there, that sort of stuff. But if they can't get those things right, uh, I mean, what should, what should they be doing to make sure that they're getting the right people the right times? What does, what does big fem do to keep track of all that?
Speaker 4 00:08:22 Sure. The best thing that I could say is like, you know, as always this, this business happens fast all the time, but I think as much notice as you can give people so they can plan properly, that's going to go a long way, way farther than it ever has before. Uh, of course, you know, we're always able to pull it off. You're always able to dig deep and find the people that you need when you need them. But the more notice, and you can make sure that you have the right people in place and everything's kind of covered because, you know, I mean, I think everybody's gone through it as the world's open up here. Everybody's a little rusty, you know, and that's not just the people that are on the ground, but it's the people in the offices as well. You know, like a lot of these systems that we all used to run with hundreds and hundreds of people, he had been running for like, you know, 20, 20 or 30 people for the past year and a half or so. So I think it takes a minute to get ramped back up again. Um, you know, definitely a little bit of learning curve, shaking off the dust and getting back into it. So I think the more time you can allow these people that helped you prepare for your show, the better, uh, the better outcome that you're going to have across the board.
Speaker 1 00:09:24 For sure. Um, Joe, when, when, when we're looking at specialized labor, you know, you run your labor company a couple of years ago. Uh, what were some things that you were doing to help train the guys and the girls that were working for you during that time so that they could, uh, level up to the next level? You know, they wanted to move from, you know, let's say being an Emmy to being an LD, or they wanted to let you know, kind of take that next step, because there's going to be a lot of that here. I see those opportunities where if you're ready, uh, there's going to be great opportunity to step into that next role because there's going to be an opening somewhere. And instead of them running out, trying to find somebody, they can fill it with someone who's already close local or close by, um, you know, w what are you seeing, you know, vendors being able to get their people to that next level to fill those spots?
Speaker 3 00:10:13 Yeah, my, you know, my suggestion is always to work from within, uh, any time you have somebody that you can trust, you know, maybe they're not, they're not a full blown programmer designer yet. Um, but if there's an instance where you can find a gig where you are, maybe you're on site and you can be there to field questions or any issues that might pop up or even jump in the seat, if you have to, just to, just to get the show going, um, you know, I've been in those situations and I was able to bring up, uh, people who, who didn't have opportunities necessarily program. Um, and I would train them along the way, you know, give them, give them guidance, give them help, uh, do, do the, do the things that, you know, you didn't necessarily have yourself when you were, you know, when you're going up. Um, and, you know, as always anybody who shows that initiative shows that that, uh, puts, but to really step up and, and, um, tell people they want to work in that, whatever that is, if it's a designer, if it's program or whatever, you're, you're always gonna, you're always going to get looked at in a different way than if you're just standing on a corner, waiting for somebody to yell at you to come over and yeah. And, you know, pick up that table.
Speaker 1 00:11:36 Yeah. Mike, what is, what is big fin doing to, to move on, move people up to the next level, kind of push them up, up, up the ladder.
Speaker 4 00:11:43 So same kind of thing. We just kind of, uh, extended a little bit into a new company called pig fin international, where we are now concentrating on, uh, teaching kids out of school. Let, let kids that wouldn't normally see that they had an opportunity to do this as a career, um, step into that role and get some education. You know, we have young kids, we have, uh, hands that want to advance technicians that want to advance are all taking our classes. Now we have, you know, some of the top people in the industry, teaching lading, rigging, audio, video, you know, everything. And I mean, we're really just trying to train up the next generation. Cause I feel like that's where we're at now. You know, we really got to start looking outside the box and just not going to the same old well, to try to keep everyone watered. Right. We got to find a new source and I think that's what we're doing now. And she'll, I couldn't agree with you more. All I tell the kids, all you need is a work ethic, right? If I see that you have that, we can teach you all the rest. I just need to know that you're going to jump in there and what the, what the business, no matter what.
Speaker 1 00:12:42 Yeah. Couldn't agree more. So work ethic, of course, being the top of the, the top of the chain. What are two other things you're looking for in labor as, as you need to staff up, if you've got to pick between two people, what's the, what's the qualities you're picking from those people that say, oh, well, these guys may not know as much as someone else, but man, these are the guys I need on my gig.
Speaker 4 00:13:08 So the two things that had to put it out there, or, um, like adaptability, right? Ethically being able to get through it all and diplomacy. Okay. That's a big one nowadays in the world that we all operated, those old rock and roll days. You have to know, you have to have people on the job that know how to, uh, just behave, not, not just be technical, but also know how to function and operate within a team. And especially in these corporate settings that we're all working in. Now you have to be able to represent, you know, you can't just be out there being a pirate, doing it like the old days. I mean, surely at festivals and things, but there's a lot more other work nowadays that is the corporate world. So I think, uh, you know, diplomacy, adaptability are the two keys.
Speaker 1 00:13:48 No, no, that's awesome. What, uh, let's, let's talk real quick about the touring folks. What are, um, what are touring? What are touring groups looking for in labor specific people? What are some things that they're saying, man, we really got to have these qualities out on the road, you know, full time now.
Speaker 4 00:14:07 So obviously they're just going, they're going to the old school, right? They're digging all the guys out there have been roadies for life they're out there and they're always going to be doing those shows, but I feel like all those people are back to work already. So I think touring is kind of the market right now where they really need to start bringing in some new blood, right? Some, some people, uh, that know how to get it done. And I think most importantly, we have to lean on our old crew, chief. That's kind of the old heads in the industry to start training these kids up and show them the ways of the world because that's a whole different world in corporate or any of the one-offs that we all do. I mean, it's really a lifestyle. We need some of these old guys like myself to teach the kids like what it's like to live out there and, and to do it successfully, maybe learn from some of our mistakes.
Speaker 1 00:14:53 Agreed. No, that's great. Um, how can you mentioned big fin international, where, where do people go if they want to start getting some training, doing some things like that, where should they be headed to?
Speaker 4 00:15:05 So right now, admin, a D M I
[email protected]. Okay. Uh, if you just hit us up there with anything, they want to know any questions, uh, anything we're here for you, you know, I mean, we really are. I'm taking this personally. It's like we're training up the next generation. You know, I want to make sure that our art and everything that we learned and perfected is passed on it and maybe even improved upon, you know, for everybody coming in and everybody's getting opportunities that, that might have been harder to get for, for guys like us when we were starting. I want to make sure that the path is easier, uh, that they could get a little bit more success, a little more opportunity for success now. So that's why we're here, man. So ad made it big Satan international.com and you know, we'll teach you everything we can. Well, we'd love to get you on the books and you know, we're really expanding all over the place and trying to make sure the labor culture is well-preserved and well taken care of it. We'll prepare for what's coming in the future.
Speaker 3 00:16:01 Yeah, buddy. Uh, also, you know, I know a lot of the big players, the PRGs the, the CTS, the four walls are, they're all looking for people. Uh, you know, so I've seen for high, you know, for, for hire, looking for work, whatever. Yeah. All over the place. So that's, that's a resource you can hit up to
Speaker 1 00:16:23 Agreed, but for sure. Um, Yeah. And there are definitely some markets. So if you're looking for work, you need something. Of course you can always email myself. Uh, you can email gig
[email protected]. We're happy to push you in the right direction as you're looking for more work. Um, as, as labor coordinators are trying to find people that they need, um, what, what are some other things that they could be doing, maybe one or two things that you can think of that labor coordinators could actually drum up people for their Rolodex as they're, as they're going
Speaker 4 00:17:00 Okay. I'd say the two things, number one, partner up with people, you know, like for so long people looked at it as like a win lose, like, Hey, you're going to take the job and I'm going to lose the job. And we can't be friends with, I was never like that. I think we all need to work together to make sure that the market is staffed. It's, you know, everything's taken care of, you know, we work together instead of against each other. So that would be the first one. And the second one is maybe start talking to the people that are on your team and see if they have friends. Do they have people that are interested? You know, maybe it's a recommendation like that, that, uh, you know, that you can tap into that resource. And did, you might even not know was available. Like you hire one guy, maybe three guys come with them, you know, maybe they have roommates, maybe, uh, they have some people that have a little bit of skills, you know, and you get them on your team as well.
Speaker 1 00:17:44 Yeah. That's great. I mean, I agree. Ask another people, Joe, any other thoughts on that for?
Speaker 3 00:17:49 Yeah. I mean, I totally agree with that. Partnering, partnering with even competitors, you know, just, just putting the word out, saying, Hey, look, if I get, if I get stuck, I'm going to call you. If you get stuck, feel free to call me. Um, that's you have to partner. There's more than enough work out there for everyone. We've lost so many people we've lost so many people in this that we were going to be flush with too much work and we needed help with.
Speaker 1 00:18:21 Yeah, exactly. Awesome. Awesome guys. I love that. That's great info. Well, thank you so much, Mike. Thanks for taking a couple of minutes out of your day.
Speaker 4 00:18:30 I was literally walking into the millennium Falcon right now at this minute. Got admitted in. So I'm going to go stay at the galaxy.
Speaker 1 00:18:38 Joe wants a bike. All right.
Speaker 4 00:18:41 You guys are great. I'm always here for you guys. Anytime you want to talk, give me a call. Thanks.
Speaker 1 00:18:46 Thanks. Big fan. Take care of it. Peace out. Outstanding. I love that. That's so great. That that is real life right there. And that's, that's exactly where we want to be. Uh, well dude, I know, man, I I'm, I'm incredibly sorry about New York auto show. That sucks, but uh, you know what, there's always something else around the curve. We have no idea what, uh, what's going to come up next. So
Speaker 3 00:19:10 Yeah, I mean, I've got another thing that week that I was, I was kind of designing, but then handing off. So now I'll just be doing that, but, uh, it's still, it's still a tough pill to swallow, you know, when, when you've been waiting for these things to come back and then they finally come back and then it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1 00:19:29 Well, is there any, if there's anything I could say to those who are to everybody out there, just keep the faith. There's this, uh, I just finished reading the book, good to great by a guy named Jim Collins. And he referred to this, uh, he referred to this, this paradox as he calls the Stockdale paradox. And there was a jet, there was an Admiral in the Vietnam war named Jim Stockdale. And he was in the Hanoi Hilton if you will, for eight years. And he was tortured on and off. He went through years and upon years of captivity, uh, as a, as a pow and Jim was having a conversation with him after that. And, and they were walking through the courtyard of, uh, of, uh, of the college. He was working out, I think in Boulder, Colorado. And he was asking, you know, Admiral Stockdale, what, how did you make it through?
Speaker 1 00:20:19 And he said, Stockdale stopped and turned to him. And he said, I knew beyond the shadow of a doubt that we were going to get out of there. But I also had to deal with the brutal facts of where we were right at that moment, knowing that we did not have the timeline of when we were going to get out there. And so ultimately the Stockdale paradox is knowing that you will prevail, but dealing brutally and honestly with yourself where you are right then and there and not saying, oh, well, it's going to be this, or it's going to be that. But instead saying, this is how I'm going to get through this. And I know that ultimately we will get to the end. Um, and I think that we're in the middle of that right now. And it sucks. Like don't get me wrong, but I do believe that we will prevail and there will be more than enough at the other end, no matter what anybody else says. And, uh, we're going to see an incredible re Renaissance. Really. I think it's going to be like an event Renaissance, uh, coming up, you know, end of this year, early next year. And, and people are going to blow the doors off and it's just going to be one big non-stop party, most likely,
Speaker 3 00:21:28 Well, everybody's got two years of budget. So do
Speaker 1 00:21:32 So, man, we're looking forward to it. But if we're trying to find the labor, you're trying to find labor, uh, reach out to those around you. If you need it, ask somebody, make friends, uh, you know, just get to know more people talk to more people, listen to them, hear their stories, I guess
Speaker 3 00:21:48 Like big fence, like big fence to, you know, call, call outside your own market. Yeah. There's there, you know, calling a company like his, you know, he can, he can fly people across the country to do whatever's needed. Correct. So that, that if, if you don't have that resource or you don't, you know, you want to use another company or IAA or whatever, you know, start calling outside of your market. And I bet you find people real fast
Speaker 1 00:22:13 And, and it'll create consistency, which is what we're going to need after this. We, we can't afford to have the inconsistency that started to come at in 2019 and a 2019, early 2020, where sometimes you didn't know what you were going to get. Everybody was so busy. And so overtaxed that it was like, I don't know if I'm getting a, an actual stagehand or I'm getting a temporary laborer who was building construction yesterday in some instances. So, um, you know, making that network, making that connection that you need to get the best labor. So will Joe, Hey buddy, thanks for jumping on today. Uh, really excited about the future. Best of luck to you, my friend, as you continue to design and do great things over the next couple of months. And I know I'll personally, theoretically, I hope fingers crossed. I'll see you in, in September. Um, and we're just praying that everything keeps kind of moving forward. And, uh, you know, I think the future is bright. We just have to patiently wait and know that we will prevail. So, um, hope you have a great day, my friend, and we will see you next time.
Speaker 1 00:23:22 Labor is going to be one of the most critical portions and or parts of the next 12 months. So for you, make sure you're learning, you're growing, you're staying hungry and you're keeping your eye on the ball. Don't forget we will prevail. And the end of this is so close. We can taste it. I hope you have a great day. Tell your friends about gig, ready, let them know that we are here to help you get better because you are no better than your last gig. Have a good one and have a great night.
