Speaker 0 00:00:00 This is the gig ready podcast. Okay.
Speaker 0 00:00:19 This is it. Welcome back, everybody. Jordan Goodfellow here, Joe Mack, other side of the country. How are you doing, sir? Great to see you. Great to have you here.
Speaker 2 00:00:27 Great to see you too. We are nearing the end of the summer
Speaker 0 00:00:32 Dude. It has gone so fast. My kids started school last week and it's just been, it's been a whirlwind for my wife as she's trying to get everything figured out and started for them and all that. Shouldn't
Speaker 2 00:00:45 Be a whirlwind for both of you.
Speaker 0 00:00:48 Well, let me say my wife is pretty amazing. And so she kind of just does it. I do the she's sh I'm the Jordan. Can you go to target and get me all these things please? That that's like, that's, that's my extent.
Speaker 2 00:01:00 That's your, that's your contribution?
Speaker 0 00:01:02 And I check math homework. That is my, uh, yes, math homework is my, uh, I guess that, that is my, my default. I get doesn't matter day night. Doesn't matter. Like if I get home at 11 o'clock at night, it's like here, check the math and work. Awesome. So, but my son likes that too. I think that it's, it actually is something that has connected us and we found, um, you know, unique ground with that. So it's been good and I like it, but
Speaker 2 00:01:30 Yeah, unfortunately my son is smarter than me now, so I can no longer check the math homework. I have to go to the internet to help me out.
Speaker 0 00:01:39 Copy that, make it. I'm sure that it will get there for me at some point in time too. I mean, we're still, we're getting into fifth grade, so we're in long division and you know, we haven't hit algebra and co-sign tangent, whatever else that is, so, okay.
Speaker 2 00:01:54 Yeah. Yeah. He's going into like, pre-calculus I think this year is in an eighth grade as an eighth grader. Cause he's advanced, but I'm just like, eh, yeah, I can help you with the geometry stuff. I'm pretty good there.
Speaker 0 00:02:07 Yeah. Yeah. I get that. I mean, you learn a lot of great stuff in school. Um, however, I will say that school, there's actually a couple of things that in life, I don't know if necessarily school completely prepares us for and when we're, when we're talking school and learning, um, another learned trait, especially in our industry is taking care of the customer and taking care of people. Um, I mean that is what defines everything that we do when ultimately equipment is a commodity and service is everything. Um, cause cause we can get that equipment from anybody, people, everybody has equipment. I can get a speaker, I can get a video projector. I can get a screen, I can get a television, I can get a light doesn't matter. I mean, people have it. Um, and the only thing that can differentiate us from our competition or our other technicians is how we service the customer.
Speaker 0 00:03:10 Um, I think I get frustrated sometimes I had a situation, um, earlier this month where a contractor who works for me, good contractor knows what he's doing really good at what he does. Um, didn't bring the customer service chops to a gig that I needed him to. And uh, the client had to call me and we taught, we had to talk about it. And I, you know, of course took responsibility for the actions of, of that individual. But the biggest thing that happened was there were some changes that happened onsite. Whoa, holy crap. Imagine something changing once you get to the gig that never happened. I, you know, I know that, but w w you know, cause we plan our shows so well that nothing ever changes, uh, you know, we live in a vacuum, uh, so that it's just perfection, but for others outside of us, um, gosh, I make more mistakes than everybody.
Speaker 0 00:04:06 Anyhow. Um, those, when something changes, you gotta roll with the punches, you got, you have to not get angry. This person got angry. Um, and, and then the client, their artists came, uh, to the client and then the client came to me and was like, Hey, like we can't be having this. This is unprofessional. And I completely agree. I'm like, we don't need to get angry. We just need to pause, look at the situation and say, okay, they're asking for X in this particular case, it was revolving around, uh, any or mixes. And we needed to possibly look at adjusting from a mano to a stereo in here. I mean, really, truly in the grand scheme, tiny like little thing, but this person got upset and they were angry and they weren't happy about what was going on. And, and, you know, eventually we figured it out, but I, you know, I'm calling project manager being like, we gotta deal with this and so on.
Speaker 0 00:05:05 And we did, but, um, really frustrating to me because I hold a standard with how we do shows and when people don't live up to that, um, there's some serious consequences. And I think you've seen that too, whether it's not working for somebody or whether it is not being called back. Um, I personally have made mistakes. I have, uh, I have had my attention divided and I got, you know, I'm trying to think of the right word, got caught with my pants down, as people would say distracted. And, and we, and, and I lost a gig and I lost a client because I did. And it was my fault fully admit that it took me a year to admit that, but I did. And, um, I vowed, I would never do it again. And so I've changed how I work. Um, what, what do you find are some of the things that you see that separate, especially from having run a labor company, run labor for fortune 100 companies working with people regularly, man, what are some of those things that you, that you really try to espouse within your guys that say, listen, guys, this is how we service the customer, girls, guys, and girls, sorry, that's the, it's the all encompassing your folks.
Speaker 0 00:06:22 Yes. Those folks, all of the individuals who work within your organization,
Speaker 2 00:06:28 Uh, you know, the, the, the first thing I look for obviously is a good attitude. Um, you know, somebody, somebody who brings a good attitude nine times out of 10 is always going to be on the side of good customer service. Yeah. Um, if, if you don't have that good attitude, when, when changes start happening and when, uh, egos might start flaring where, you know, tensions might start flaring because it's coming from the top, you know, a lot of, a lot of the work we were doing, um, w working for fortune 100 companies, it's, it's always, everybody shows up with their hair on fire. And, and if you can be that calm, uh, collected, you know, not necessarily always having the right answer, the second they ask it, but saying, um, yeah, let me, let me look at it. Uh, I, I think we can make that work, or if you have a reasonable answer to tell them why something won't work, um, and be a straight shooter about it that often will speak volumes to your character and customer service.
Speaker 2 00:07:44 Yeah. Um, you know, I've, I've sat in some pretty high level meetings with, you know, billionaires at both ends of the table, uh, talking about how we're going to make this the best thing ever. And then they, you know, they, they want to put in something just gargantuan that costs them, you know, million dollars out of the bed, out of the gate. And you're like, yeah, but it's not that I don't think you can spend that much money. It's that I don't think you want to spend that much money, you know, and if they're like, no, no, no, we want to spend money. Great. So here's how we're going to do that. And then any challenges that come along, you bring that, you know, you bring that to the forefront first and foremost, you don't, you don't mess around you don't, you know, mince your words just to try and keep the gig.
Speaker 2 00:08:32 Um, so I've always, I've always taken a common sense, an honest approach to customer service. Yeah. If you're honest, if you're honest with your customer, you're, you're already ahead of the game because there's a lot of people who are not honest, they'll be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. We can totally do that for that much. And then they flip the script or they bait and switch or whatever, you know, to, to get the price up to where they want it to be. I've never, I've never done that. You know, it, it is, it's what, it's what I said, it's going to cost. Or if it's not, I give you the reason why, and, you know, I'll meet you in the middle a lot of times, if, if I feel like it's our fault, if it's their fault, then obviously I'm going to fight for, for, um, getting paid for that extra work. But, but ultimately just being honest and having, uh, a pretty common sense approach to how you speak to your client and how you work with your client is always going to benefit you.
Speaker 0 00:09:39 Right. And not allowing circumstances to dictate how you respond to someone else, even if you're frustrated in that moment with, uh, uh, you know, a piece of equipment not working or, uh, I mean, you know, in your case, a console not doing what you want it to do, or, uh, you know, something else. I know that I get caught up in that sometimes. Like, for instance, when I'm driving, I'm driving down the road and somebody cuts me off. In fact, this happened yesterday. And I was like, I suddenly got, oh my God, rubber rug getting all frustrated. And then I realized that I would then walk into a response to other people with that frustration. And I caught myself and I brought, I brought it back to the center. I took that deep breath. I was like, okay, this has nothing to do with anyone else, except for the guy in the car in front of me that just cut me off. And frankly, there's nothing I can do about it anyways. So I've got to move into another, another frame of mind to make that, you know, to make that difference. Um, I have
Speaker 2 00:10:42 A great story. I need to bring up, go for
Speaker 0 00:10:44 It, dude, talk to me.
Speaker 2 00:10:46 So, so we're doing this, we're doing this event, uh, here locally, fortune 100 company. Um, and just that we're, I'm driving, I'm driving out there and this Jeep just absolutely cuts me off. Like, and I'm like, you know, giving them the one finger salute and, and I was pretty pissed off like pretty pissed off because it really, uh, it was going to be a long day. It was a 6:00 AM call and it was going to be a long day. And, you know, I just happened to see them cause they're really flying down the road and I see him kind of get off the freeway and they get off the same place I'm getting. And then they turn the, this, and slowly it dawns on me like, okay, this person's going to be in the same place that I'm at. And literally I see them get out of their car and head to the, to the building that we're, we're working in.
Speaker 2 00:11:44 And literally it was my client for that day. Wow. So the first thing I wanted to say was, you know, you might, you know, why did you got me out? But then so, so ended up working with her. She was awesome to work with great human being. And then the next day I was able to tell her the story about how she, and she just laughed. She thought it was slow. She goes, I was running still, I'm sorry, I cut you off. You know, and it was just like, I saw that moment of being able to, you know, see how I didn't react. I didn't go, you know, guns blazing at this person. I didn't even know that ended up being my client that day. And I thought, I thought, you know, that's, that's pretty important. Cause I probably would have been escorted off the, the facility.
Speaker 0 00:12:38 Yeah. Well, and, and how, I mean, it's a great, that's a great example of, you never know where someone's head space is at when something happens. And if you're going to fly off the handle about something, um, because someone else did or, or had a reaction to a situation, um, you don't know, we have no clue why they did it. So w ultimately when we respond out of anger or frustration, we are instantly judging that situation as if we know exactly what's going on. And, and instead of looking at each individual person and saying, I have no idea what they're going through right now, they could have gotten angry or frustrated because of XYZ, uh, or something I don't even know about. We take that breath, we pause and we don't allow ourselves to be drawn into that situation. But instead we stand back and look at it from above, you know, I've had, I've had moments where clients come in, you know, they're angry.
Speaker 0 00:13:39 They're frustrated with me. Why didn't you do that? How come you didn't? Why did you, or, or why did you do that early? Why did you, you know, I was calling a show a number of years ago and the speaker completely skipped an entire section of the show, just boom, skipped the whole thing and went onto the next piece. And I was like, all right, well, that's what we're doing. Got everybody on standby, getting everything ready to go. We skipped that whole portion, you know? And then one of a couple of different people that were part of the customer comes rushing into front house. What are you doing? Why are, why are you moving? And I'm like, he skipped this part. I know it beyond a shadow of a doubt. No, he didn't and we're going to go back and then it, and then it comes back around later that sure enough, he talked to him and found out he did skip it.
Speaker 0 00:14:21 And he came back to me and actually apologized to me. It was like, man, I'm so sorry that I got upset with you. You made the right call. And because I remained calm and I did not get angry at him for his response that service to him as a customer, he didn't, he actually came back and apologize, which almost never happens. I mean, you know, rarely do I have a customer come back and say, oh, I'm so sorry for what I did. It's just not common. And so, um, I mean that, and that's just goes to show you service the customer and, um, they'll do, they'll go the lengths for you. Um,
Speaker 2 00:15:01 But yeah, that's a, that's a great, that's a great, uh, thought train about, um, you know, where people's head space are on any given day, uh, or any given situation, you know, that's, that's what I've really been trying to, um, to, uh, talk about with our mental health stuff. And when we're on site, like if somebody is losing their shit, it's probably has nothing to do with you. Um, it's probably something else they've got going on in their life or, you know, that morning or that week, or, you know, and, and, and just taking that, taking a, a millisecond to pause, soak in what whatever is being said, or whatever's being done and just handling it in a calm, cool manner, rather than absolutely losing your, you know, your shit and going off on somebody. Cause that's gonna, that's going to be more detrimental to, to your customer service, uh, character, um, moving forward to, to, to keep you gainfully employed, you know? Yup.
Speaker 0 00:16:14 Well, and pulling out the big guns, as I would say, when it comes, you get angry. I mean, that's really what you're doing. You're pulling out the water Canon, if you will, and spraying somebody right in the face. Um, one, it's not going to create very many friends and two, um, it only begins escalation and no matter what it is, you can you come back from it. Sure. Apologies go a long way. When you take stock of a situation after the fact. And if you realize you were wrong, you own up to it immediately. Um, you know, that's something that, that I have been working on lately is stepping back from a scenario after it happens and kind of looking at it, you know, if someone may have gotten mad at you because you did something stupid, we do stupid things sometimes. And instead of automatically assuming, oh, it's not me.
Speaker 0 00:17:05 It's not what I'm doing. You know, just to counterbalance what you just said, take 30 seconds after a situation happens and say, did I do something dumb that I shouldn't have done? Or has something been happening that I don't want to admit? I did, like what I said about this, the client that I, I wasn't paying attention for like a couple of hours during the day. Cause I had, there were other work things I was dealing with that in my mind took priority in that moment. And so I had to recognize that, unfortunately it took me almost a year to look at that situation and say I was in the wrong. And then as soon as I realized it, it took me a couple more weeks to build up the courage, to send my former client an email saying, listen, this was my fault. I screwed that up. And I understand that now. And I'm very sorry, this is not me attempting to get work back from you, but I needed to let you know that I see it and that I'm making the change and the adjustment to that. Um, and so it was, uh, you know, actually I never heard back from them even after that, but my conscience is clear at that point. Sure.
Speaker 2 00:18:13 Yeah. You did your, you did your due diligence to try and remedy the situation, clear the air and, and make it, make it better. But clearly that, that didn't work for the, for the future.
Speaker 0 00:18:25 Yup, exactly. And then, like you said earlier, dude, honesty with your client. I mean, that is the epitome of customer service is admitting when you're wrong and just being honest and communicating with them or when something is not right. Every one of my clients would much rather know that there is a problem when it's a problem then to come to find out later that there was a problem that they potentially could have helped us solve. Most of the time I find that technicians and people, they don't want to look bad. So they just assume that if there's something going on, that they are not in control of, or they can't change or something happened that is beyond their control. Uh, or even if they made a mistake that they shouldn't tell anybody hide it so that nobody knows and then figure out how to fix it.
Speaker 0 00:19:10 And, um, I found out the hard way, uh, that, you know, in the past that really truly just come out, come right out with it, be like, here's what happened, here's what's going on. And then, you know, we are working to fix this and here are the steps I'm taking to resolve this problem right now. Um, you know, now I will say that that is a it's great advice on site. There are some times where, you know, things happen in, like, let's say a shipping mishap happens and I forgot to ship something today, yesterday. Instead I ship it overnight and it still gets there on time. Like there are situations where you don't have to, you know, where you're not being like every single thing that happens that goes wrong. Your T oh, Hey, just so you know, something bad happened. Oh, Hey. So, you know, it was a bad habit, you know, and every time it picks up the phone, but you feeling it out Mo you know, situation by situation, uh, so that they're in the loop.
Speaker 2 00:20:03 Well, and just taking, taking care of the things that you can take care of before you, uh, go down the path of of saying like, Hey, there's no way we can do this, or, you know, disappointing your client in some way. Um, but, but having the, having the wherewithal to even step up and, and stand up, not proudly, but with hat in hand and saying, look, we screwed up. I'm really sorry. Uh, you know, um, how can I make this better? Or, uh, is there a way we can make it better being able to do that as soon as possible and nip it in the bud before it becomes a real problem, is, is always going to benefit you from a customer service standpoint. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:20:49 100%, um, constantly communicating and it saves gigs. Um, you know, I had a, I had a show, I think I've told this story before. I don't remember, um, where we, it was a big show, six figures, like multiple six figures. And I completely screwed it up because I forgot to send one text message dope. Oh dude, seriously, one text message could have saved. The entire show would have made the entire show go completely different. And it was a text message from a month before the show, because I went back and looked for it. Cause I was like, I know I told him and I, I had never sent it. I had never sent the thing that said, please add these frames to the led. That was it. That's all it needed to say. And then it caused four days, three days, three days of headache and flying across the country twice to fit like multiple, like it was bonkers.
Speaker 2 00:21:53 However,
Speaker 0 00:21:55 It is hard. But because of the service that I offer to my customer, the responsibility of communicating and communicating with them about the real reality of the situation, not only did I save a client, they came back the next year and they refer me to other people now.
Speaker 2 00:22:14 That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, uh, when you have good customer service, your reputation stands out, your clients will always stand up for you and, you know, send you to the next person. Yeah. Uh, with, with, uh, a good, um, you know, a good thought about you in mind that, that, uh, it it's becomes the most important thing. You can be, you know, the best designer, you can be the best project manager. You can be the best technician, whatever, but if you're a pain in the ass, you lie, you know, you lie just to get the gig. You, you, uh, you know, make stuff up to cover your own butt and or you, you sell somebody else out to cover your butt. You know, that, that lasts only so long. And, and I've seen more, uh, people, technicians, programmers, audio guy, I mean, I've seen more people get pushed out of the business because of, you know, that, that bad customer service or the bad attitude or the bad, you know, not being present, not, you know, work, always working on somebody else's show when you're not working, you know, and that's, you know, sometimes we do that, but if you're open and honest with your client and saying, Hey, yeah, I'm working on the show that, that I have coming up in a month, but that's what I did on the show for your show, a preview, you know?
Speaker 2 00:23:48 Yeah. So being, being honest about that kind of stuff will always make it easier down the road.
Speaker 0 00:23:54 Yeah. There was a, there was a TD that, uh, that I know, and he has this sign that he puts on his table that says,
Speaker 2 00:24:02 This
Speaker 0 00:24:03 Is how I got your show done. And, um, and so he's communicating right up front and he's like,
Speaker 2 00:24:10 Yep, yep. You know that sign on your forehead. That just says, this is what I'm doing. I am not trying to get one by you. I am on site, but I'm here, I'm present. Yup. I am absolutely 100% present for you. And, and that's, that's a really important thing about customer service too, is being present when you're onsite, you know? Yeah. You can be fielding emails and phone calls, but when the client comes up to you and says, I need you to handle this right now, you handle it right. Then you don't push them aside because you've got a gig and I'm weak. That's right. To take that right.
Speaker 0 00:24:44 Stop, drop and roll. You just, you jump on it. What, uh, do you have any good stories about keeping customers, even when it's hard? You know, it's like the, the service that you thought would have never got kept the gig for you and somehow miraculously, they keep coming back over and over again.
Speaker 2 00:25:02 Well, I think, I think I kinda touched on it just based on, based on longevity, you know, when you're always honest with somebody they're always going to come back to you. Yeah. Because, because they know you're not going to on the ones where they can afford to, you know, load the money cannon and shoot it at you. Uh, and you're willing to, you know, you're willing to accept it or the gig that they have, like no budget. And they say, you know, Hey, you gotta do this on a buddy rate. You know, you can honest openly and honestly say, um, I've got a bigger show that week, or I've got other, you know, other things going on. Can we do it for X amount or whatever, as long as you're willing to be honest about anything with your client, you know, just like you would somebody in your family or your friends.
Speaker 2 00:25:56 I, I consider my clients, family and friends, you know, I, I don't, you know, I don't really separate that. There's a, there's a very faint line in the sand. Uh, but I don't keep things from my clients when, when it comes to anything. You know, if, if it's, if it's going to effect their show, it's going to affect their budget. It's going to affect the overall look of the show, the design, uh, you know, if it's possible, whatever, whatever it may be. I'm always, I'm always honest about it. And so far, you know, I can say maybe I've lost two clients because of that. And, and, but there were clients that I didn't want to continue working with anyway. Yeah. Because they didn't respect that. Yep. So that's all right, man.
Speaker 0 00:26:47 There's always that servicing the customer and that's, what's going to separate people as folks are getting back to work as we are, uh, looking into next year. Um, you know, especially if you haven't worked in a little while, having the, having the audacity to give better customer service than you did before and looking at how you do things and just taking two minutes of assessment and saying, okay, this is how I used to do it. Did that serve me well? And will it continue to serve me in the future? And if the answer is yes, then man keep doing it. But if you are able to make that honest assessment, and I hope that we all can and say, you know what, I could probably do whatever it is, better communicate better. Um, that is, you know, that, that is something to take a look at and say, all right, I gotta do this.
Speaker 0 00:27:41 You know, for me, I'll be very honest. Uh, getting quotes done is difficult for me right now. And so I have to take a look at that and say, what's causing this. Cause I'm not servicing my customer by, by taking too long to get them quotes. And so how do I make that process faster so that I can get them what they need, uh, even if they don't have a timeframe, you know, even if they don't need it in 24 or 48 hours, you know, am I able to deliver? And if I'm not, then I have to change how I am servicing the customer in that way so that they have the expectation to understand exactly what they are going to get from me. And so, um, you know, don't tell them
Speaker 2 00:28:24 Honesty and expectations is a really key, like, like you're saying here is just, just having, giving that timeframe like, Hey, when do you need this by? Yeah. Or, or having that open dialogue of like, I'm, I'm slammed on another production right now, you know, what's your drop dead. I need this done by. Yeah. You know, and, and giving them your own limitations, you know, makes it, makes you a better customer service rather than, you know, them expecting you to be at their Beck and call 24 7 because that's just not really
Speaker 0 00:28:57 That's no, and that's a great, that's actually a great idea. And getting either myself or my assistant to respond when they say, you know, if they don't give me a drop dead time asking the question, when do you need this by, um, that's, that would actually be a great way that I can, I can help mitigate that challenge, um, and not let things fall through the cracks. So thank you for that. I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 00:29:18 Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:29:20 Awesome, dude. Well, Hey man, thanks for jumping on today. Um, customer service is something that I'm very passionate about. I think it's something I'm going to start talking more about because one, I've had some pretty bad experiences in the last couple of months from not non AAV vendors, like people who aren't in our industry and looking at and saying, man, we have to do better. Um, and the great thing is, is that you can, you get to charge for that too. It's not like you have to be the cheapest on the block and the worst. There are people, a lot of people that will pay for that service. Um, and you just have to find them because they are there. I know they're there. I have some of them. Um, don't be afraid to go the route of a higher rate. If you believe and know that you deliver superior customer service, because they will keep coming back because that's the service they need,
Speaker 2 00:30:15 Know your worth. That's right. No, your worth awesome brother, if you don't, nobody else will.
Speaker 0 00:30:22 And that's a hundred percent, right? You are the only one responsible for your life, your pay and the money coming into your bank account. And, uh, if you want that too, to go higher, give the best service you possibly can. And, uh, it will come. It may take time, but it will come. So
Speaker 2 00:30:38 We hope on get ready that we're giving you the best customer service for information on how to be, get ready for your next event.
Speaker 0 00:30:47 And, and we want to continue to do that. And so please email us, Joe, Joe Mack, at more than light.com or gig
[email protected]. And we'd love to hear from you to give us some feedback, tell us what we can do better. Uh, feel free to tell us what we suck at. I know there are things I suck at too. Um, you know, I'm not perfect like Joe, so we'll, I'll keep striving for that perfection, but, uh, until then have a great week, no matter who you are, customer service will separate the good from the great, you can be great each and every day, every single show, because as we say here at gig ready, you're only as good as your last show. So take a minute, assess who you are and what you do around customer service and make it great because each show that you do will tell the next one how good it will be. Thanks for listening. Tell your friends, let them know that gig ready is the absolute best place to get the information you need to do a better gig each and every day. Rate us on iTunes and we'll see you next time.
