Speaker 0 00:00:00 Welcome to the gig ready podcast. Thanks for joining us today. Really excited that we get to learn and grow together. Ultimately here at gig ready, we want each and every one of us to become better at what we do each and every day, whether you're a touring professional, whether you're a corporate event professional or somewhere in between each day, we have the opportunity to either stay where we are or get better. And through this podcast, we hope you learn something that takes you to the next level. As we work together. We want you to know that this podcast wants to bring value to you, and we need value back from each and every one of those of you that are our producers, our listeners, those that are a part of the podcast on the other end of this digital connection. We want you to do just a few things for us.
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Speaker 1 00:01:31 <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:01:46 Welcome back, everybody. Jordan Goodfellow here, gig ready, excited for today. We've got a special treat. We've got Ken pooch van. Drusen a front of house engineer touring front of house engineer for some of the least known bands in the history of the world. Namely Lincoln park, iron maiden slash a number of others. He's a rock star in his own, right. But we're excited to talk all things audio in front of house today. Pooch. Thanks for being here, buddy. Love to have you thanks so much for coming on.
Speaker 2 00:02:16 Oh man. Thanks for inviting me. Uh, this is a lot of fun. I'm glad to be here. Thank you.
Speaker 0 00:02:21 Lots of digital stuff happened in these days. I mean, you're, you've been hitting the, the interwebs pretty hard lately, all kinds of webinars and stuff like that. Um, before we kind of really dig in, let's talk about what you're doing right now with, I mean, Jesus, it's been four months of no touring. Can't go anywhere stuck in the office. Uh, what are some things you're working on?
Speaker 2 00:02:42 Yeah, it's funny when you said, Oh, you know, uh, touring for a house engineer. I'm like, no, I'm not, I haven't been for a long time. Um, yeah, you know, it's weird. I took, I took four months off before COVID happened, uh, because I was having some neck surgery and um, and those four months were gonna be the longest period of time that I was going to be off, uh, in the past 20 years, at least 25 maybe. Um, and those four months went by and then all of a sudden, like I literally was supposed to go back to work, um, the 1st of April, uh, with our unmade. And, uh, so then that happened and here we are. Um, so then I think much like most people, I kind of have pivoted, uh, to try to figure out, not only to keep my mind busy and also keep talking about audio because I love audio and I love what I do.
Speaker 2 00:03:39 And, um, you know, for the first couple of weeks, um, I was at home and not talking about audio and kind of, it was a weird time. And so I said, uh, I went to a couple of different people. Um, one of them was Chris Raybould. Who's a front of house engineer. He mixes Bruno Mars and, um, Kenny Chesney and, you know, all kinds of bands. He's a really famous front of house guy in his own. Right. Um, I approached him about doing kind of a webinar thing. Um, that's turned into a thing, you know, there's 26 hour long episodes, um, on my YouTube channel, um, all talking about audio, uh, and that stemmed from he and I used to call each other like once a week or so. And just kind of talk about audio, like, Hey, what's the latest thing? What are you doing?
Speaker 2 00:04:30 How are you doing it? And, uh, so my thought process was, well, why don't we make everyone else be a fly on the wall for that call? Um, and, um, it's turned into 26 episodes. And then the other thing that I'm doing is with, uh, Kevin tater McCarthy, a world famous monitor engineer, whom, you know, um, uh, doing a, a weekly live stream, um, where we have guests, uh, from the industry, uh, you know, we've had, uh, Dave Shadoan from sound image, um, you know, all the way to, uh, we had Doug koshas, who's a financial guy, you know, so all aspects of the industry have come on that thing. Uh, we actually had Mike Shinoda one week. He, he decided to count on the lead singer of Lincoln park. So, um, so it's been fun. Um, and that's, that has managing that and managing the social media of that has kept me super busy, which is good. Cause I don't want to be at home thinking about how horrible our industry is right now.
Speaker 0 00:05:35 There's a lot to be done in managing all that stuff. I have, I have found it to be overwhelming significantly trying to just keep up with everything that's going on, keep in contact with people. Um, you know, especially when you don't naturally do you know, normally on your, on the road, you're like, Oh, I got this problem. I'm going to call so-and-so and deal with this thing. You call them, you catch up for five minutes and then all that. And then suddenly it's ERT, you stop. And then two months later, like, Oh man, I haven't talked to this guy in forever. And then, you know, that hit and social media, all that stuff, it just, it happens. It's part of the game and, and well, we're doing the best
Speaker 2 00:06:08 Crazy man. Like, yeah, it's crazy. Just the, I never realized how much of a full-time job, a social media manager is of a brand. Um, and in a way I'm kind of running two different brands, you know, with the two things that I'm doing. And so, um, man, that's just, you know, like constantly posting and trying to promote things and whatever it's, um, it's a lot of work. Um, but, um, you know, I I'm, I'm enjoying myself, um, because I'm getting to talk about audio, which is what I love to do. And I love to give back to the, you know, the community of audio engineers and, and roadies in general, um, and try to spin a positivity to what's happening right now because, um, you know, as you know, uh, we will be the last business to go back to work. Um, and especially, uh, you know, those of us that mix arena and stadium bands, we're really going to be the last guys to go to work. So, um, I'm trying to play the long game, you know, um, not sick, just depends on, yeah,
Speaker 0 00:07:16 It's a great idea. Tons of great knowledge and information, which is of course why we're talking today. I know that you are an expert on, on multiple fronts and, um, I wanted to take, uh, take some time and, and pick your brain on what you do, how you do it. Um, and, and I guess the bigger question most people ask, why do you do it? Um, you've been doing it for a long, long time and, and, and worked for some of the biggest bands in the world running, I mean, set foot on tons, continents, cities, crazy places. Um, you know, what do you see as your role when you come in? So front of house engineer, that's a title, but your role when you approach a show, whether it be for the first time that the first show or the thousands show, um, how do you see your role when you approach that? Um, whether it's at the beginning or whether it's down, you know, in the middle of the tour, do you approach it every day, the same way, or is it, is it different each time you step up to your console as you're, you know, doing your craft?
Speaker 2 00:08:25 Uh, I mean, my role as a front of house guy, I think is to get, um, the audio experience of a show. You know, we don't do concerts anymore. We do shows, which is a, an immersive experience of all kinds of things, huge video walls and stuff blowing up and, you know, but lots of lighting and all those things, these things have really turned into, um, a huge, uh, show, not just a concert. Um, so my role as the front house engineer is kind of to be at the top of the, uh, the, uh, chain of people, you know, team of people that are providing the audio, uh, for that experience, um, kind of the buck stops here. I'm the CEO of the audio department basically. Um, and, um, when I team fails, I'm the one that, that gets in trouble for it, or when my team succeeds, I get the accolades and I try to share that with my guys that are, are, are below me.
Speaker 2 00:09:31 But you know, when we're talking about an average, um, stadium tour, you know, there's upwards of nine, 10, 12 guys, um, that are underneath me. Uh, I say guys, I mean, women too, we have a women in this industry. Yes. Um, I have to be clear these days are hard work roadies, man, man, hardworking roadies. That's right. That's right. Um, and I can't be the CEO of the auto department and succeed without the youngest of those, uh, succeeding himself or herself. So, um, it's really kind of about managing people. You know, the show is only 90 minutes, um, and, uh, it's important. And, um, it, it, it ultimately is, is what, what matters. Um, but it's the rest of the 14 hours or 16 hour days, um, that are, are really, um, what, what working in this industry is about, I guess, um, you know, getting along with 12 other people, getting along with 40 other people, all the other departments, um, I think is really, uh, the key to success. It's, it's not so much that you're a, uh, an amazing front of house mixer, although you have to have skills, um, beyond that, it's about, you know, can I, um, can I get what I need from people and make them feel like they're getting what they need from me? Um, that's really the deal.
Speaker 0 00:11:05 That's my role. That's a great way to describe it. I think it's more than just, you know, you're not the guy that's just walking up there pushing faders. You have a whole dance that has to be choreographed each and every day. Um, so then it sounds like you kind of, there's two separate boxes then that you put, you put the, the 14 hours of load in soundcheck load out into one box and then the show fits into a different, a different box. And so how, how go ahead. Now
Speaker 2 00:11:36 I was just going to say that there's a different level of intensity of both of those things, but yeah, they are definitely two different things to me, for sure.
Speaker 0 00:11:43 Awesome. So then let's talk about each one individually because they would, I mean, they work together, but ultimately they're separate. So how are you, how do you, um, how do you manage like the, so you come in in the morning, like give me a walk through your day. How are you managing the, the, your day, uh, starting, you know, woke up on the bus, boom, here we go. Uh, what's happening. So, um,
Speaker 2 00:12:06 Um, generally I have, um, an assistant, a partner who is a, it's called a system engineer. Um, and that guy is ultimately responsible for the deployment of the speakers, um, and making sure that the mix that I create in a console translates to every seat, uh, in the arena. Um, and so he and I are really certainly in the last seven years because of technology advance, um, have become, uh, sort of partners in crime if he doesn't do his job well, then I can't do my job well and vice versa. Um, and it really requires a two person thing. There's a different skill set for a system engineer. Um, they have to have, uh, lots of skill in networking, um, and equipment and deployment, and also know what sounds good. Um, whereas my, uh, focuses on the mixing part of the gig. Um, but anyway, because of speaker technology, that job has come leaps and bounds.
Speaker 2 00:13:14 Um, it used to be a job where a system engineer in big quotes, uh, was the guy that basically hung up, speakers pointed them at people and then threw the keys to the engineer and said, good luck. You know, um, that used to be what was that was, and, and what that re that title really was, was crew chief, not really system engineers, kind of crew chief. Um, but since speaker technology has become so good, there's a new job that's been created really, um, which is the system engineer thing. Um, and I say all that because he is absolutely the first person in the building, probably even before rigors. Um, he gets off the bus and, uh, is walking in the building, um, you know, six in the morning or seven in the morning, whenever the bus was pull up to a place, he's the guy, when it, the brake, the air brake goes on, he's the guy that's running out the door.
Speaker 2 00:14:11 Um, and luckily, um, I don't have to be that guy along with him. Um, although, um, I do, uh, participate in that and show up probably an hour, um, after we arrived somewhere. So if loaded is scheduled for 8:00 AM, let's say, um, 7:00 AM. He's probably in the building, like looking around and, and measuring things. And, um, you know, um, it's become the technology of this has become vast. And so now we have, um, speaker prediction, technology software, um, but in order to use that software, you have to plug in numbers and you have to, you know, use a laser measuring tool and measure the room and basically no, no measurements to create a virtual space in order to, um, play speakers, uh, in this prediction software. So, um, once he measures everything, which is usually about an hour later, like all come in about 9:00 AM and he will discuss with me about what he's discovered and what he thinks he's going to do.
Speaker 2 00:15:21 Uh, we have interaction for probably about an hour or so. He goes on to do, uh, you know, make sure that all the gears coming in. And he's usually also maybe the crew chief too. So he is, uh, discussing with his crew about speaker deployment. Um, and, uh, that usually kind of takes us up till about lunchtime or so, and right around then is when I usually get front of house gear, um, off of a truck. Uh, and I, um, even if it's not my gear, uh, I like to set up front of house and, uh, it's kind of a ego control thing, I think. Um, but, but honestly, it's one of those things where it's like, if there's an issue that happens in front of the house, I know in my brain what I've connected and what I haven't. And so I can eliminate things quickly when there's an issue.
Speaker 2 00:16:21 So I can say, Nope, I know for sure I plugged that into the right hole. I know that's done. Whereas if I'm counting on someone else to do those things, I don't know that for sure. Um, and then time is spent, uh, trying to, you know, track it down. So anyway, um, so I set up for the house and meanwhile, he's still putting up speakers and doing all that kind of stuff. Um, and that generally takes us till right around sound check time, um, which is usually about three o'clock or so, but it, depending on the artist man lately, I, you know, I was trying to think like iron maiden does not sound check, uh, Lincoln park did not sound check. Um, I did, I think the last band that, or the couple of the last bands that I did that sound checked were like Michael McDonald and Alanis Morissette. Um, so those were like theater tours and they liked to play in the afternoon. Um, but generally these days, uh, we're using the technology, um, you know, to do virtual playback, which is, um, multi-track recordings of what we did from the night before, um, with you, with the ability to kind of hear individual things through the PA without having anybody path to play. Yeah. Um, and so most bands are kind of doing that. So, um, and they're using that and they're using
Speaker 0 00:17:50 Their own sound. In fact, that was something I had, I'd always meant to ask you, like most of the front house in two years, I had ever known prior to, you know, my introduction to you and your process was, you know, they're using someone else's mic someone else's music, whatever, but you never did. You always used, it was either the night before or, or a recording that, you know, was your ideal. Um, what's your, what did you do that for? And help me understand that, that thought process.
Speaker 2 00:18:16 So I used to be that guy before virtual playback happened, which started, I think virtual playback became a reality in 2007. Um, like before that it really didn't exist. Um, you know, um, but, um, as soon as it became available to me, I saw the benefits of being able to hear stuff through the PA that's actually going to be what the people are going to hear that night. Um, you know, prior to that, we would use recordings of, uh, you know, and I did too, the first 15 years of my, my career, uh, 10 years of my career, I would play, um, you know, whatever track, um, of an artist I use. I used to use like, uh, tears for fears record, and I used to use a bridge against the machine song. Um, but basically the idea behind those, um, tracks were to listen to different parts of the PA like, you know, a particular track that had a mid range kind of tone to it.
Speaker 2 00:19:21 I wanted to hear what the PA sounded like with a really mid rangy kind of a thing or, uh, something that had a lot of sub information. Um, and so I would play like, I don't know, five or six different songs to try to see what was going on with the PA. Um, but as soon as we were able to use this new technology of virtual playback, where it truly is exactly what's coming off the stage, uh, and the ability to solo up instruments because it's multi-track so I can hear the bass guitar by itself. Um, that made a lot of sense to me. And I was like, I don't, I don't need, you know, rage against the machine anymore.
Speaker 0 00:20:03 That's great. It would come. So, and this was an, is this using pro tools to create, like basically you're recording the, um, uh, you're recording, what come in at what's hitting the preamp into the crackle? Correct.
Speaker 2 00:20:18 So any DAW could be pro tools could be Reaper, could be these days, I'm actually using Reaper, um, which is a really great DAW to collect data it's super stable. Um, but, uh, but basically I am recording every single, the, the single microphone on stage. There's every single input that's on stage, right at the mic pre Oh, wow. Um, and then you're able to, by the push of a button, swap it between the, the DAW tape machine, for lack of a better word, um, and live, and they should be the same, um, because they're both being recorded right at the, at the migratory pre, um, so, uh, yeah, it's a, it's a pretty amazing tool. I can sit there with virtual playback and listen to individual things, even with a pair of headphones and really focus in on stuff to improve my mix. And it, it, um, I, you know, I was talking with another friend, a house engineer a while ago. I think it was Chris Raybould, um, about like, I don't remember how I used to, I don't remember my workflow before a virtual playback, you know, it's like, I think if someone took that tool away for me right now, uh, I'd be in big trouble. I think it's a, it's a major part of my workflow now.
Speaker 0 00:21:41 Yeah. Well, I mean, and it led to consistent, uh, consistent shows that sounded great every single day, there was never a guest. There was, I mean, I mean the more data we have, the more reliable we can be when we're working. Um, of course, so sound check, check the PA listened to it for a while, making sure it's right. Good to go. W where, where, what happens after that
Speaker 2 00:22:06 Generally that takes right up until doors. Um, you know, because a lot of times we're trying to work around other departments, um, and try and, you know, widen guys are trying to do stuff and video guys are trying to do stuff. And so we have to stop for a while for them. Um, and, um, that takes us right up to doors, usually five 30, six o'clock at night. Um, and then I get to walk away and have a little bit of a break, uh, but all the rest of my guys continue to work. Um, you know, those, the youngest kid on the tour is a kid that probably works from 8:00 AM until 2:00 AM every day. And then does it again the next day. Um, I luckily get a little bit of a break there, get to have dinner and maybe, you know, have about an hour, um, to, to myself.
Speaker 2 00:22:56 Um, but that's the only time during the day I have been working straight from 8:00 AM until for sure. Um, and, uh, then we, uh, do the show, oftentimes I'll go out, uh, in opening acts and just make sure that everything's cool, uh, out there, you know, my system engineers kind of maybe helping and then another engineer, or sometimes he is the mixer of the opening act. Um, so, um, you know, uh, and then we go out there and do the show, um, and then as soon as the show's done, uh, you know, like even before the lights are coming up, we are wrapping up cable and unplugging things that we don't need. You know, literally my system engineers unplugging things in the middle of the last song that are stuff, that's stuff that we don't use anymore. Um, and then, uh, yeah, then it's, uh, uh, a sprint to the end, which is usually about two hours after that.
Speaker 2 00:23:52 Yep. I know it, I mean, it's, I know you do, um, you know, I mean, listen, you know, you've, you've had it, I've had it, all my friends around me talk to me, Oh, you must have the most amazing life. You get to hang out with rock stars. And, you know, it's like, it's, it's a hard job. Um, it's not quite being a roofer, but it's, it's along the lines of, you know, Hey, this is a job that, uh, you know, I get to be artistic. That's the one thing that drew me to this job is I do get to be artistic about things. Um, I'm not sitting at a desk and having to do the same crap over and over. Um, but, um, it is, uh, you know, I mean, it's a hard job. It's not easy. And as I get older here into my fifties, um, I'm starting to go, uh, is this really how much, how many more years of this do I want to do? Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:24:48 You know, I remember watching, um, the audio guys, especially, I mean, the, the, the guys, like the PA guys hang in PA and stuff that they would start first thing in the morning and just, you know, they're on stage pumping speakers for opening acts. And then they're, I mean, I would tell the guys back on the bus, I'm like, dude, you know, we're done videos up. And of course, none of the opening acts are using videos. So nothing's happening. And I'm like, man, the audio guys, I never realized how hard of a worker those guys were. I mean, they just nonstop. I mean, just, just one boom, boom, boom. And I remember thinking like, Oh, the audio guys must have it easy. PA's up there done. And then watching the guys just bust their butts
Speaker 2 00:25:27 All, all day
Speaker 0 00:25:29 Long. I mean, there is no break there because audio is really, honestly, probably I would say the most critical portion of any, you know, now show because it used to be concerts. You have to have audio for everything. You turn all the lights off, but there's no concert if there's no audio.
Speaker 2 00:25:47 That's true. Um, yeah, I mean it is, um, we are one of the hardest working departments for sure. I think that it actually used to be easier. Um, and I think it's because technology with the advent of the fact that we can now provide the same show to every seat in the house adds like three hours of time to our work day. Um, which is amazing. I mean, you know, the, the one thing that I have ever wanted as a front house engineer was to provide the same show to the guy all the way in the top of the nose gate, to the guy that's paying the big money in the front. I want both of those people to have the same show. And up until probably five years ago, seven years ago, we were not succeeding at that. Um, we were doing a pretty good job, but not, not like it is now. Um, but, but because of that, we've added a giant amount of technology to do that. And in that requires a bunch of time. Um, and so when we used to have maybe time in the afternoon to take a nap or whatever doesn't happen anymore,
Speaker 0 00:26:59 You can't just throw up a trap box and say, Oh, that's it. That's what we're doing. It is what it is.
Speaker 2 00:27:06 Uh, let's let's point speakers of people. And, you know, that looks kind of, okay, that's, that's not what it is anymore.
Speaker 0 00:27:13 No, I mean, technology, you know, I started out that this is something you may not even know. I started out in the audio world years and years ago, mixed non like 35 hundreds, uh, old crest, centuries PM 35 hundreds and stuff in the Christian music industry on an old Adamson RA, PA. Wow. And then, and then into the Vertech world, um, and then after Vertech and some Soundcraft series fives that was like, Oh no, sorry, PM five DS. I basically ended on a PM, five D and then, you know, everything just took off from there. So I talked to my audio friends now and they start talking about like the steering and all the subwoofer stuff and all the things that you guys can do to create an experience and really, truly an experience now. Um, and it is so far beyond anything I ever had the capability or, or opportunity to do. It's pretty incredible how technology has advanced
Speaker 2 00:28:09 It truly is. And it, um, I'm, um, I guess I, I'm blessed to be able to work with the cusp of that technology, um, and really kind of pushed the envelope in trying new things and trying to get to the point where, you know, um, it's an immersive experience for the people that come to the show, you know, I want them to, um, get, I want the person that's all the way over on the right-hand side to kind of still have a feeling of stereo ness about it, you know, and still feel depth and width of the mix that I have going on. Uh, and like I said, you know, five years ago, that just wasn't a thing. And now it is. So,
Speaker 0 00:28:50 So then, so you, you approach the show differently. How do you approach, like, I don't want to say managing a show, but mixing the show because there's, there's so much more than just, Oh, he's done with this guitar, pull this down, push this one up. I mean, I wa I've, I've been out in front of house, I've watched you like the joy and the focus that comes from that. Um, kind of what is going on in your head. What are you thinking about, what are you doing? I mean, it's not just, Hey, this doesn't sound like the record. How do I change it? I'm like, what's going, what's going on there.
Speaker 2 00:29:23 So I spend hours and hours in rehearsal periods, focusing on the technology part of this and the, you know, getting nerdy about, you know, well, I think this should be plus three D here. You know, that all kind of happens before we start doing shows. Um, and there's a lot of work in that in getting things to kind of gel together and be, um, in the correct stereo space, um, and not, uh, frequencies, not clashing with each other. Um, and you know, I really strive, uh, I like to call it a, a record quality mix with impact. So what I'm looking for is, um, something similar, you know, one of the great things about being a live sound engineer is that I get to look at a record and I have an example already. So it's, it's a lot like, Hey, I have to build a house, but there's a house right next to it.
Speaker 2 00:30:25 That looks just like it. So I know what to do. Um, and so as a live sound engineer, I get to take something that is tangible and exists and exists and kind of put my own spin on it. Um, and so during rehearsal periods, that is what I'm focused on is like, you know, taking that, uh, existing template, making it my own, making it have some impact. Um, maybe having some moments that are a little bit different than the record, but there, you know, I think they're cool and running it by the band to see whether they like it, you know, um, that all happens prior to kind of the first show and then shows for me, um, are way more about sensing the crowd energy and making balanced decisions based upon what's happening with the crowd. So, um, at a Lincoln park show, for example, um, you know, if there's a lot of energy in the room and the kids are just having a great time and they're, you know, whatever, um, I might actually make some balanced decisions that are, um, a little bit outside of what you would say the norm of a record is.
Speaker 2 00:31:43 So for instance, if the room is just energized and guys are having a great time and it's going really well, I might turn a guitar solo up louder than really what it should be. And the reason is is that the emotion of that, the impact of that guitar solo flying at people coming from nowhere, the dynamic impact of that yeah. Feeds on that energy. Right. Um, and so, um, I make decisions like that are kind of what my what's going on inside of my head the entire time is feeding off the energy of the crowd, making those kind of balanced decisions. But I, you know, I don't do a whole lot of like, you know, E queuing or messing around with any sort of Gates or even like effects really. I mean, it's in the show, it's more about w what, what right. Um, for the mix. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 0 00:32:43 That's awesome. So speaking of the mix, something you and I have kind of talked about a little bit years ago was the importance of our ears and the things that we, uh, this was something I always thought was incredible, um, that you cared just a Mo just as much about the ears of the people that are listening as you did about your own, knowing that well for you, these are the moneymakers. Um, but for them, that's something that they have to carry beyond this show where a lot of sound engineers that I see, they're just like, and, Oh, that's good. It's as loud as it possibly can be. We're calling it 120 DB. And here we go, um, you know, most concerts, I would put your protection. And if I walked out in front of the PA, because it's just so loud and I, I never had to do that when I'd walk out front of a Lincoln park show or something, because there was great presence, great feeling, but it was never this overwhelming sense of like, my ears are suddenly tired. Um, what, what brought you to that, like that care? Um, and then how do you maintain that?
Speaker 2 00:33:48 Uh, I couldn't hear it. Can you repeat that question? I said, I'm joking. Dang it, crap. I haven't taken care of my ears. I can't hear anything. I don't know what you're talking about. Um, no, I mean, listen, I was guilty for the first 10 years of my career of the guy that just turned stuff up. Um, because honestly as an audio engineer, it is one way to have impact is volume. So if you are not very skilled, um, and you are, uh, eh, you know, uh, a front of house engineer, that's just starting out or a sound engineer. That's just starting out. It's an easy way to get impact and make people go, Whoa. Okay. Sounds good. Um, is by turning it up. Right. Um, and you know, I mean, I did bands for years, that was, that was their goal. And I did kiss for six years and then their goal in life was to have the loudest show possible.
Speaker 2 00:34:53 Like, you know, they wanted every, every amp and every light on your console, red. Um, and it was, um, you know, hard on my ears. Um, but when I started, when people started giving me the opportunity to decide what that volume was, um, I discovered that, um, there's a way to get impact without volume. Um, and it has to do with the way that you, you mix and the way that you use your balance of low end versus high end. Um, and you can get all of those without getting into IR damaging levels. Um, and then I also, um, as I grew older was like, I don't want anyone to come to any of my shows and get hearing damage, you know, there's, I would see these kids that were on the shoulders of the parents, you know, the four year old kid or whatever.
Speaker 2 00:35:58 And I was just like, man, you know, I couldn't live with myself. If that kid, you know, went to act, you know, whatever show that I was doing and, and got hearing damage from something that I was doing. Um, so I started looking for ways to still get that impact and get a reputation of somebody that gets big sounding, rock bands, um, but without the ear damaging levels. Um, and so, uh, to this day, it's important to me, you know, um, you know, uh, it's funny because a comment, I get a lot about iron maiden about the previous engineers that worked for them is that, you know, guys will come to front house and say, Oh man, you know, that's just sounded amazing. Thank you. The last time I came, it was so loud. I don't know, you know, I couldn't even understand what was happening.
Speaker 2 00:36:50 Um, and this time it was like just the right volume. And I was like, okay, cool. Then I know that I'm doing my job appropriately. The guy didn't come up and say, you know, we'll, you know, it was kind of quiet, dude. You know, I don't know. He came up and went, you know, wow. It sounded amazing. And thank you. You're not blowing my ears up. Um, and then on top of all of that, the speaker technology, uh, happened where they started making speakers, um, where the headroom of that speaker was gigantic. Uh, and the reason was in the past, we used to have speakers where you literally would turn it up until it started to distort. And then you would turn it down a little bit and be like, okay, that's as loud as it goes. And there you have it. Whereas now the amp technology and the speaker technology allows us to push it into something that is absolutely ear damaging and you can hurt people.
Speaker 2 00:37:53 But the reason is we're trying to make the headroom high enough so that there isn't any distortion. Yeah. The problem happens when engineers decide to use that headroom, um, to, to turn things up. Um, and, uh, so, um, I am not that guy. I don't want to be that guy. I, I spent a bunch of time making sure that I can have that impact without using all that stuff, but I watch guys all the time, you know, because there's not distortion guys. We'll just keep pushing and making it louder and louder and louder and louder. And the next thing you know, you're looking at an SPL meter and it is absolutely your damaging levels. Yeah. Um, and, and I just look at those guys and go, what are you doing? Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:38:43 I want my ears when I'm 80, I want to be able to hear, and I want me to, yeah, it's a, and it takes skill to actually adjust to make that change. I mean, anybody can turn it up. I mean, it's like in my car stereo, anybody can turn that anybody can take that knob and turn it up. It's not hard. Um, but, but there's art and their skill involved in getting that impact, getting that power that comes out of a big PA 60 boxes, 80 by however many and making it that full, but not. So, I mean, I applaud you for that. Just, I don't know if I've ever told you that, but
Speaker 2 00:39:17 Thank you. I appreciate that. You know, there's a, um, there's definitely a skill set, uh, and a skill ability that kind of separates men from the boys. And that is, is that is the ability the guys that are mixing the top, acts in the world are the guys that can do that. It's not that maybe their mixes better than somebody else's or whatever they are. The guy that in a soccer stadium, the sound pressure level is 101 DBA weighted at front of house and not 120 and at 101 you're you're, it's still a really nice, impactful show. Those are the guys that, that are mixing, you know, large scale shows.
Speaker 0 00:40:03 No I'm with ya. I remember we went, um, we were all in Australia. You may or may not recall this particular incident, but we were doing, uh, we were in Brisbane, Brisbane S I don't remember we were, we, uh, everybody, the whole crew went to a show of a very well-known band in Australia back in 2012, 2011. And it was like the worst, one of the worst experiences I've ever had at a show. And I just, I couldn't like I stuck around only to hear a song I wanted to hear. And then I was like, I was gone. I couldn't even take it.
Speaker 2 00:40:36 It was horrendous. I, you know, I was, I can't, I can't say who the band is, but I was standing at front of house and, uh, standing next to Chester, Bennington, God, rest his soul. Um, and, uh, after the first song, he turns to me and he goes, what is going on? And I said, I said, give him a minute. Maybe he's still, you know, hold on. Maybe they're having a bad day or, you know, whatever, give him a minute. And we sat there another two songs, and then he looked at me, I looked at him and we go, let's get out of here. And so I ended up, um, only staying for the first three songs, basically it was raw. Um, and there's no excuse for that. That is what, what that was, was human error. Um, the technology exists, um, and, uh, there's no excuse bad sounding shows even in a giant soccer stadium. Um, and so that was nothing more than human error.
Speaker 0 00:41:42 Interesting. Well, I'm glad we're working to take the human error out of it, which is great. I mean, it keeps everybody safer, everybody healthier. Um, that's fantastic. Well, thanks for sharing. Um, uh, I, yeah, that's fantastic. So looking at a show, um, what are the three things, whether technical or not that you need on every job? Like if you don't have those three things on a job and it can be anything it's like, this is pooch, this is what I need to do a show. It could be, you know, your special, comfy carpet. It could be your coffee. It could be the, you know, the, the latest JBL PA I don't know what, what are those things? Um,
Speaker 2 00:42:22 I mean, I have a tool kit that I bring with me that are like the essential things. You know, I have a Pelican that has like the things that I need to do a show. Um, and so, uh, these days, those things are, um, a pair of headphones, obviously. Um, and then, um, a thing called smart, uh, which is a piece of software that shows visual representation of a frequency and time and phase relationship in speakers. So, uh, I can, uh, basically set up a microphone and, uh, take some measurements of the speakers and make sure that components are working. I can make sure that speakers are aligned with each other. Um, I can, uh, visually have a representation of what frequencies look like in your, your mix or your, whatever you're putting through the PA, um, in a way that's a relationship between what's coming out of your console and also what's coming out of the speakers.
Speaker 2 00:43:28 Um, cause oftentimes those are not the two of the same things. Um, so, um, smart is just a thing. So that, that requires a laptop in a, in an interface and some, you know, um, uh, microphones and, um, so that's, that's definitely, um, the second thing, um, she's, I'm having trouble with the third thing that I'd absolutely have to have. Um, I don't know. I think probably virtual playback. Right. So, um, part of that kit, um, is, uh, part of what I bring to a kit where it's not my gear for instance, or not a tour, um, is a bag that has two laptops. Uh, one is kind of the record laptop. One is the smart laptop. Um, and then, uh, all of the interfacing and stuff that's required to make those two things happen. Um, so I guess that'd be the third thing is definitely virtual playback.
Speaker 2 00:44:25 Like even if I'm doing a club band, if I'm at house of blues and, um, I, I bring virtual ability to do a virtual recording, um, because I'll do sound check with that band record sound check. And then in that space of time, in that hour between soundcheck and doors, I'll put on a pair of headphones and really just quickly dial in things that I may be wasn't curing or wasn't focused on, uh, during soundchecks. So even in a situation where I don't have rehearsal, I don't have, um, you know, any time, this is the first time that I've ever heard this band, virtual playback is still a tool that's, you know, is amazing for that hour. That's fantastic. So, yeah. So those three things, I guess,
Speaker 0 00:45:14 No, that's a great, uh, I didn't even think about the idea of boom headphones put in, hit, flip the switch, whatever that is suddenly you're listening to everything you just heard again, and it's not coming off of stereo bus. It's not coming. I mean, it's not coming off of a CD player. I mean, gosh, technology blows me away. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:45:33 It's amazing. I mean, you can sit there and just work away. Even if I only have an hour, I can significantly improve my mics even in a pair of headphones. Wow.
Speaker 0 00:45:42 And do you feel like, um, the quote, like going from headphones to PA is your goal to, to, to keep it not, I don't want to say similar, but, but get it, I mean, do you feel like you're able to keep that close to where you get the feel of like the presence of the headphones and boom it's there and the PA
Speaker 2 00:46:00 More so these days, you know, the, uh, speaker technology has become more, um, nearfield monitors really, and, and more, um, like headphones, you know, the only difference between headphones and what's happening in speakers is usually the low end information, um, is maybe not as present in a pair of headphones. Um, but, um, I use a pair of headphones that I have for years and years that I kind of know, like, I know what it's going to translate to in the low end. And so I, even though it doesn't sound exactly the same in my headphones, I have used it so many times and gone from headphones to the large speaker that I know what's going to happen, even though I'm not hearing it. Yeah. That makes sense. Okay.
Speaker 0 00:46:50 Totally. Another benefit of a professional, somebody who does this day in and day out showing how the consistency of time, day in same thing every single day, um, too,
Speaker 2 00:47:00 That was, that was totally crapshoot, you know, for years that was years of me blowing it, like screwing up, you know? And, um, so that is purely experience. It's purely like, okay, now I really know what's going.
Speaker 0 00:47:15 Yeah. So now what, so the day, speaking of day after day, do you ever get tired of like the same, like hearing the same thing? I mean, you do it in soundcheck, you do it at the show. I mean, what do you do mentally when you're like, crap, this is the five time I've heard this song in the last three months. Like I, do you ever get to that point?
Speaker 2 00:47:36 I do, but not really. And here's why I don't care what the music is. Um, in fact, um, sometimes I will tell you that, uh, my mixes sound better with an artist that I'm not a fan of. Um, and the reason that is, is that, um, I get emotional about a mix for a band that I like, uh, and maybe it steers me down a path of making sound decisions that are maybe not the right sound decisions for a band, whereas a band that I really don't care about. Um, it's purely about, uh, you know, making it sound the best now. And the other part of this is I don't, this is weird and it's hard to describe, but I don't really, like I said, pay attention to the music. It's a sound puzzle for me. So every night it's, it's a puzzle of how to get frequency, space, depth, sound, things to work together.
Speaker 2 00:48:47 It's not about, um, you know, I'm, I'm emotional about a guitar solo. You know, remember we talked earlier about, Hey, I want that guitar solo to be huge because of what's happening to the energy from the crowd, there's that going on in my head, but there's also this weird, it's a sound puzzle. And this frequency band today is not working and I'm able to separate myself from the music. And so by doing that, it's a different thing every night. Um, and so it, it keeps it fresh, keeps it different. Um, and, uh, it, I don't get bored with it.
Speaker 0 00:49:26 No, that's great. That's a great way to put that. Um, getting, I mean, you see it, so yeah, it's a different, it's not just the same song every night. It's the same song, but a different space and each space responds differently. Um, do you, do you think that, um, do better musicians make a better front of house engineer? Or can I front of house engineer make any musician better than they might be at that moment when they play?
Speaker 2 00:49:56 Are you, so are you asking if, uh, if I think that a front of house engineer should be a musician, is that right?
Speaker 0 00:50:01 No, no, no, no. I'm saying like, there are bands of all levels at, you know, both skill and notoriety. So you have some really good bands that aren't very well known and you have some very well-known bands that may not be the best artists. So from 30 years of doing this, you've worked with really good ones and you've worked with ones that, that they figured out how to make a great show. Um, and people love it. There's nothing wrong with that, but they're not the, the Mozart's and the Beethovens of, of, of our time, you know? So can, can those, like the, the, the artists that are like the consummate professional, like the best absolute best artist at their craft, do they make your job easier, harder, or the same as one who they can get up there and do the job they can get up there and play the guitar, hit the drums, do that stuff and make good music. Um, but they're not as good as the other, you know, the, the other artists, because there's, everybody has different skill levels and that's okay.
Speaker 2 00:51:07 Yeah. I see what you're saying. So, um, I think that they're equally as hard in different ways. Um, so often, um, uh, when I work with an artist, uh, that is just an unbelievable musician. A lot of times they are, um, driven not only about their music, but also about their sound. And so they were, are the ones that are gonna come after me about making it better. And honestly, it's, I, I welcome it. It's like, great. Let's talk about it. You, you know, you have great skills as a musician. Let's talk about how to make it sound better. Um, so there's, there's that, um, and then the musicians that are not so great or, um, are maybe good, but not, you know, maybe their sounds are bad. Um, that becomes a real challenge to find ways to cover some of that up. Uh, and so, uh, uh, there is, um, all kinds of ways to do that. You know, these days we have playback stuff and we start putting things in playback to have it kind of cover up, you know, some of that, but they're equally as hard. They're equally as hard. They're just different, you know what I mean? And it's a different approach, um, in order to get it, but ultimately they're both headed for the same goal, which is to provide an experience for the end user. That is, uh, something that they'll talk about for the rest of their lives. Exactly.
Speaker 0 00:52:51 Actually, um, the, have you ever had a time where, like you mentioned the really good, like the amazing musician comes to you and says, Hey, I sound like this. I want to make sure I sound like this all the time. Has there ever been a time where you've had to like check your ego at the door, knowing that like you had the ability to, to make it sound even better than they wanted it to, but then like, they're like finding that balance between creating the great show, but their opinion at the same time,
Speaker 2 00:53:19 A hundred percent, um, it happens all the time. It's usually guitar players. Um, and it's usually a tour that is a smaller space where the backline matters as to volume and tone. Um, you know, I can think of two examples. Um, one of them was early on in my career. Uh, I worked for, uh, Vince Neil from Motley crew. He had his own solo tour, um, and Steve Stevens was the guitar player and Steve, the, one of the most amazing musicians on this planet and one of the nicest guys on this planet. Um, but his guitar rig was, I mean on stunned. I mean, it's so loud that, um, sometimes, uh, depending on the venue, he wasn't even in the mix because I was mixing everything in the PA around what was coming off stage. Um, and he just, you know, I mean, that's just him, that's the way that he operates is the way that his tone was.
Speaker 2 00:54:21 He was like, if I turned down even just a little bit, my tone goes away. Um, you know, uh, so that was Steve Stevens and the other was smashing pumpkins. Um, also a theater tour and also, um, both guitar rigs, uh, just, I mean, you know, people would come up to me after the show and be like, wait, uh, uh, great mix, man. But the guitars were really loud and I'm like, they weren't even in my mix, I wasn't even mixing the guitar. You know what I mean? Wow. So, so yes, there are, um, definitely situations where, um, you deal with amazing musicians who are not willing to change or, or do what it takes to allow me to do my job.
Speaker 0 00:55:07 What, uh, what do you like the most about doing your job? What's the, like, everyday you wake up saying, man, I get to do this. What is the part that you like the most about it?
Speaker 2 00:55:18 Um, the, the instant gratification that happens when you're part of something that is alive, something that is causing emotional reaction to a room full of people, whether it's 800 people or 80,000 people, um, the emotional reaction that happens is something that I have control of, um, and am a part of, you know, um, you know, there's the cliche that the front house engineers, the sixth beetle, you know, um, but it's partially true. It's true that the, um, that the front of house engineer has ultimate control about how a person's music is conveyed, um, in the space. Uh, and so being a part of that and having the instant gratification reaction to something that you're doing, like turning a guitar solo up, for instance, you know, the guitar player is playing that solo and the 80,000 people are screaming for that guy, but I was the guy that turned that up and made that reaction. Yeah. Um, and so the artistry of that, and the reaction of that is still, um, you know, in my fifties, I still that hairs on my arms stand up, you know, still yeah. I'm with you a hundred and it's kind of a drug to it's it's, uh, you know, something that when you don't get it, you get depressed. And, and that's why this time period right now where I haven't mixed a show for coming up on eight months or nine months. Um, and it's, uh, I'm not getting my fix.
Speaker 0 00:57:01 Yeah. Do you ever put on, do you ever, like find, do you ever like, okay, so speaking of getting your fix, do you ever grab a pair of headphones or throw something on your speakers in your office just to like, get that moment of like, Ooh, I remember when, and then boom. Okay.
Speaker 2 00:57:18 A hundred percent, you know, it's funny, uh, Chris Raybould and I were talking about this the other day. So, um, both of us have in our I-phones have, um, like, you know, playlists that have, um, you know, board mixes of stuff that we've done. And when you get into your car and your car just kind of randomly decides, you know, whatever music to start playing it's on shuffle or whatever. Um, both of us were talking about how every once in awhile, you know, during this COVID time, we'll get in our car and one of our board mixes will come up and we'll be like, Oh man, yeah, this is Brad. And then you end up like, you know, rewinding it, you know, 12 times to hear it again. Um, so yeah, it's, it's something I miss every day.
Speaker 0 00:58:03 You sit there and now do you ever sit there and look back and say, why did I do that when you're listening to it?
Speaker 2 00:58:08 Absolutely too. It's not just about, Oh, that sounds amazing. It's like, huh, I wonder what I was thinking.
Speaker 0 00:58:17 So then, then what, so you love that. I think that's, that's a great example of one of the high points of what we do. Um, what do you like the least something that most people don't want to talk about? Like what's, is there anything that sucks about what you, about what we do? What do you like the least about being a finance engineer?
Speaker 2 00:58:37 The travel is becoming something that I don't enjoy anymore. You know, I used to love, um, you know, as a kid being in a new city was exciting. You know, you'd have a day off or even in the afternoon, if you didn't have a day off, you'd go explore and see what the city was going like and whatever. Um, but I've seen most of the world I've seen most of the things. I have favorite places that I like that I still feel that way about. Um, but the struggle of flying for 24 hours to get to Australia just is like, uh, I don't know this isn't fun anymore. Um, so, so if there's anything that I, I particularly dislike it's, it's that it's, you know, having to deal with. I think some of it too, is I come from a time period in the music industry when, you know, not everybody traveled and you would get on an airplane and it would be half full. Well, now that doesn't exist, like every single seat is sold and, you know, the airport is just crammed and you're waiting for three hours to get on it. None of that was true when I was younger. Um, and so it it's become harder to, it's not just that I'm getting older. Yeah.
Speaker 0 01:00:01 Well, it's not, I will say this, that particular thing is not necessarily true right now because everything's productive.
Speaker 2 01:00:06 Of course, sure. I got on a plane the other day and I was just like, what is happening? There's like, you know, uh, no one here, which was good, you know, I mean, um, uh, everyone was wearing masks and everyone was socially distant and I flew on Delta and so they only sell 50% of their seats. So yeah. Um, it felt safe. Um, but it was, it was really weird, you know, it was like nobody around and kind of, yeah, it was biggest airport in the world. I flew, I flew into Atlanta and there was like, you know, nobody in the train car going from the terminal to the thing. It was weird. Yeah.
Speaker 0 01:00:46 That's very much, I agree. I've flown a couple of times in the last two months. And so it's been, it's like you walk in into Denver and there's three people standing at the TSA line and that's it. And there's nobody else there, like, well, so much for paying for pre-check
Speaker 2 01:01:02 Totally. Yeah. Global entry now, dude. Yeah,
Speaker 0 01:01:07 No. Um, what about someone who wants to become, or has their eye, has their eye on being a front of house engineer someday? Um, what, what should they be doing now to, to work themselves in that direction?
Speaker 2 01:01:24 Listen, um, there are so many tools these days for the skillset of being a sound engineer, like, you know, um, part of, if you're not during this time, period, if you're not spending a bunch of time on YouTube and, and other places just honing your craft, then you're doing it wrong. Yeah. So there, there is plenty of opportunity for you to figure out the craft of being a sound engineer. Um, what there, isn't a whole lot of information about is, um, the skill set of, um, how to get along with people. Um, you know, I tell people a hundred percent, the reason of why I am, where I am today is because I am super good at walking into a room full of crazy people and identifying who's crazy and what their needs are. And somehow projecting myself into a place to be able to have a conversation with that crazy person and actually understand what it is that they want because let's face it.
Speaker 2 01:02:30 Most musicians are crazy. Um, and, and so that in itself is a skill set totally outside of being a sound engineer, um, that I believe is a hundred percent the reality of why I excelled to be where I am today. Um, so if you are a young kid in this industry, I would be studying psychology. I'd be getting psychology one Oh one books and studying books on how to get what you need from people. Um, and for people to feel like what they're getting, something that they need from you. Um, and if you can be that guy and know when to speak and know when to be listening and read people in their body language and their, um, uh, and the way that they say things to you, I think that those things will make you, uh, be in the front of the pack. Those, those things will separate you from this, you know, hundreds of engineers, if you have those skills, um, then, uh, you're the guy that people are going to keep calling back.
Speaker 0 01:03:44 Uh, man, that's awesome. Um, wow, those are great learning to read. People, understand when to listen, when to pay attention. I mean, that's well skills for life really, but, um, you know, in this day,
Speaker 2 01:03:57 Most people don't have, by the way, most people don't have those skills. Um, and I watch it happen all the time. You know, I'm just like a, watch a watch a young person. It doesn't have to be a young person, even I'll watch a person that started having a discussion and I just start going, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't say anything. Don't say, Oh, you said something and you know, well, yeah,
Speaker 0 01:04:20 We've, we've been trained, I think, unfortunately, to want to be thinking about what we want to say next, not what that person is actually saying. Um, I feel I'm guilty of this all frankly, unfortunately all the time. And I catch myself, I'm like, I'm not even paying attention to what they're saying. I'm just trying to think of what I want to say next. Um, so huge thing of like, just be in that moment. I mean, I'm actually working, um, I have a business coach that I'm working with right now. And one of the biggest things we talk about is being present and, and watching that because it's huge. Um, that's fantastic
Speaker 2 01:05:00 Being present, man. That's, that's, that's a perfect, uh, statement, you know, don't, don't sit there, you know, and that, and I'm guilty of it too. And, and tried to, uh, like yourself be the guy that pays attention because listening is just as important as what you're saying. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 0 01:05:18 So then to wrap everything up today, talking about being gig ready, you kind of touched on it a little bit about like how to be a better front of house engineer, but just for people in general, um, those that are, that are listening to say, Hey, I want to, when we come out of this, I want it. I don't want to do the same gig I was doing before. I want to be able to level up to the next level. When we, when we go back to gigging and doing shows, man, what can I do to be more to gig ready? Uh, the next time I set foot out the door and I'm at I'm at, you know, um, first day in the arena, boom, off the bus, you know, w what are two things that we can look forward to just say, Hey, man, we're going to the next level. What can we do?
Speaker 2 01:05:55 Well, uh, like I said before, if you're not spending, um, a little bit of this time, uh, taking the opportunity to learn things, you know, manufacturers have all stepped up and started making huge, uh, whole, um, classroom things that you can get for free about whatever their, you know, whatever they make. Um, and so, um, but I think specific to front of house guys, um, the future of audio is networking. Um, and so, uh, you know, certainly be learning about Dante, cause that's a network that exists and ABB, which is another network that people are using nowadays. Certainly the, uh, you know, go take those classes so that you have those at the very least. Um, but I also tell people, take a regular networking class, like go to, um, um, what is the, uh, CNB or, uh, Oh man. There's, you know, anyway, there are tons of resources you can find online, uh, to, uh, you know, take regular networking classes, like just learning about, you know, how to, uh, IP address things and get things within a network.
Speaker 2 01:07:13 And, um, you know, all of those skill set I think is kind of the future. Um, the, the other thing is I recommend is if you want to have a job, um, right away and be working 365 days a year, learn about wireless right now. Uh, so if you, um, you know, went to the sure website, for instance, Shure, Sennheiser, any of those guys that are making wireless, you know, gear, um, take all of their courses and learn about what's happening with wireless at the moment. Um, a really good wireless management guy in this business is a guy that's got work for life. So, um, you know, it may not be mixing that you're studying, but you're studying for the future of trying to get a place where you are working so that you can then have an opportunity to, uh, to be a mixer.
Speaker 2 01:08:12 I always tell people, you know, listen to a lot of what happened to me is being in the right place at the right time. I hate that old adage, but it's absolutely true. However, I put myself in the right place at the right time. And the way that I did that was strategically placed myself in positions that then led me to be a mixer. You know, I was the guy that was the systems engineer for the monitor guy who was standing there when, you know, the artist fires the monitor engineer and then points at me and says, you're in, you know, um, and if I didn't place myself there, if I didn't swallow my ego and say, all right, I'm going to go do this gig and not be the mixer I'm going to go and be the guy that's plugging in cable. If I didn't do that, I wouldn't have had that opportunity. Um, so, so really it's about, you know, uh, right place, right time, but placing yourself in the right place at it time,
Speaker 0 01:09:10 Which takes hard work, which takes focus, which takes taking opportunities and not waiting for them to come to you. I mean, that's, that's a whole rabbit hole of another conversation down the road.
Speaker 2 01:09:20 It sure is. Will awesome. Doodle,
Speaker 0 01:09:22 Thanks so much for coming in, loved listening to all the knowledge and all the wisdom. I mean, some great stuff that, that we haven't talked about before. And I just, I think it's great to learn more about what we're doing, how to protect ourselves, how to get better at what we're doing. So thanks for taking the time today. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 01:09:40 Oh man. Thank you so much for having me, uh, you know, um, I believe that, you know, people like yourself and myself that have been around a little bit in this industry, it's our job to do that, to share our knowledge and to pass that knowledge on to, um, to people. And we live in this incredible time where, um, you can just go to YouTube and find out information. You know what I mean? It's like, I didn't grow up like that. So, um, I want that information to be real. So I'm trying to share as much knowledge as I can so that people can have that. I love. Thank you.
Speaker 0 01:10:12 And thank you. Have a great day. All right. Thanks. Thanks so much for taking the time to listen today. I know that as a professional each and every one of us want to be better tomorrow than we were today. That's why we've created the gig ready podcast. This is a place where professionals can come and look at what they're doing. Look at how they're doing it and get better. Every single day. We are solely value for value. We're not going to take corporate interests. We're not going to take sponsorship money. We want you to get better solely because that's what you want. So please give us some feedback. I want to get better. I want to create better podcasts. I want to create better events, just like you do. So if you have some value, you want to give back ideas, thoughts, questions, even, even the ability to be a little critical at times, I would love to hear from you. Thank you so much. I hope you have a great day. <inaudible>.
