Speaker 0 00:00:00 Welcome to the gig ready podcast. Thanks for joining us today. Really excited that we get to learn and grow together. Ultimately here at gig ready, we want each and every one of us to become better at what we do each and every day, whether you're a touring professional, whether you're a corporate event professional or somewhere in between each day, we have the opportunity to either stay where we are or get better. And through this podcast, we hope you learn something that takes you to the next level. As we work together. We want you to know that this podcast wants to bring value to you, and we need value back from each and every one of those of you that are our producers, our listeners, those that are a part of the podcast on the other end of this digital connection. We want you to do just a few things for us.
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Speaker 1 00:01:32 <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:01:47 Buddy. Welcome back to gig. Ready. We are here today on this beautiful afternoon, talking with Harry Schaefer, etc. P certified rigger with Canyon recluse. He's not just one, not just two he's three times certified. He is so certified. He might not be able to be anymore certified at this point. Um, we're glad to have him here. We're going to be talking rigging and all things hanging over your head. Everything that keeps you safe. Harry. Welcome. Thanks for coming. How are you today?
Speaker 2 00:02:19 I am doing good Jordan. Thanks for having me on your little podcast. It's awesome. Awesome. Little we're
Speaker 0 00:02:25 We're big time buddy. Growing. This is the big show
Speaker 2 00:02:29 As growing podcast. It is, it is
Speaker 0 00:02:31 The growing podcast, a hundred percent.
Speaker 2 00:02:33 Um, well, you know, gig
Speaker 0 00:02:35 Ready. Our goal ultimately is to learn as much as we can about the gig that we do. Uh, the gig that we love, um, we day in and day out, long hours, long days. Um, you're a rigger, which means you're the first guy in the room and the last guy out of the room, pretty much every single time. Um, give me, uh, give me a quick rundown of your, um, you, your idea of when you say all right, I'm a head rigger. What does that mean to you? What is your definition of that and how it fits within the confines of the shows that we do?
Speaker 2 00:03:17 Gotcha. Yeah. Um, you know, first and foremost with rigging and if you're going to be the head rigger, if safety has to be absolute priority, you can have your process and people can argue about what's the best way to do something. And there's plenty of that, but, but safety, you know, um, so there's, um, you know, rigors, we're not in the business of fixing mistakes. Uh we're or I'm sorry, w w we're yeah. We're not in the business of fixing mistakes. We're in the business of avoiding mistakes. Yeah. And, and, and with Regan, it's gotta be a yes or a no, you know, nobody can say, well, I think that's strong enough. You know, it's like, boom. And that's, that's why rigors tend to argue and tend to butt heads a lot. It's because we, we want to look at things from all these different angles and, and in the end, it's, it's for the safety of the room, a hundred
Speaker 0 00:04:20 Percent, that that's great. And you know,
Speaker 2 00:04:23 That that's the first one, but in a, in a, how do we fit into the bigger picture of the thing? Um, I've always thought of rigors that like the crew is a band of musicians and everyone gets their spotlight at their time in the show. Um, but the rigors where the bass players, um, w we're not going to get much spotlight. Um, but we're this predictable component that gives all these other departments, a place to land on. And most of them don't even really think about us. I like, if we do, if we do our
Speaker 0 00:04:59 A hundred percent, nobody, nobody, nobody's going to sit there and say, well, the rigger didn't do his job. Right. If you've done it exactly the way you should, that's a great point. Um, you know, nobody thinks about the stuff that's hanging over their head. They just think, Oh, that's up there. That's super cool. They never think, Oh, the rigor man, he spent five hours on that CAD drawing, confirming that, that point lined up immediately beneath that I-beam to ensure that we could dead hang it instead of having to bridle it. And then it hung four feet lower. Um,
Speaker 2 00:05:29 Yeah. And, and it all happens when they're not there exactly hundred pounds, the rigors of the guys drinking coffee in the corner. They're not the, it was like, well, we were, we've been doing stuff for,
Speaker 0 00:05:41 Yes. We've been here just a few, just a couple hours before you showed up. Um, yeah. I mean, Mark in the floor, um, let you know, talking about that in, in being there, the first guy in the door, um, what is your ideal scenario to a project from start to finish? Of course we want everyone to go exactly the same, but how do you manage a project from start to finish? When some, from the first time someone calls me and says, Harry, we need you on this job. We need you to come in, execute on rigging and make sure that everything's safe all the way until that last truck doors closed. Walk me through that whole scenario.
Speaker 2 00:06:17 Gotcha. Well, um, you know, obviously like a lot of people, um, we want to get in as early as we can into the process, keeping, uh, you know, the Heights people, the Heights that people want, keeping it realistic, you know, putting a 29 foot tall set because somebody said, Oh, it's a 30 foot tall room. Well, you know, you gotta, you've got to, there's no thought about that, that, you know, that cutting that, that height off, um, you know, getting in a site visit, um, especially when it's a venue that we don't know. Cause because the details, no matter how good the house rigor is the details of communicating ducting and all this other of these little weird little dynamics that affect our world. Um, it's kind of hard to do that. Um, you know, so getting the site visits, getting in early, and one of the other things that I really like to do is, um, you know, all these virtual meetings, all these zoom meetings that people are having for all these departments, I try to get in them if I'm available, if I've got the time.
Speaker 2 00:07:23 Um, even if it's a scenic meeting to just sit there and listen, because again, this kind of speaks to that. People don't really understand that if you move the seating 30 feet in there, and then we just slide the stage and everything's normal and you're like, hello, that affects us. You know? Um, and we, you know, that's getting in early and trying to stop all of those headaches before they become big on the show site and, uh, to help manage that, I'll tell you, man, vector works. Most people are in Vectorworks project sharing. I know people have their feelings about how good project and share, and then there's certainly issues with it. Yeah. But I can now block that, Oh, I had the, I had the other version of the drawing before you move to the rigging and it's like, well now there's only one version of the drawing. So that's, you know, get in early man and watch, keep an eye on everything that's happening. That's, that's kind of, you know, how I like to get to load in
Speaker 0 00:08:37 Not to pick on the sound guys, but we don't want the sound guy coming in saying, well, in the drawing I had, it was three feet to the left over here. And well, we changed the end and then you're looking at him saying, dude, we changed that a month ago. And I sent you the new drawing and here's the five emails I sent you with the link and, you know, avoiding all of that, uh, all of that question. Um, yeah,
Speaker 2 00:09:01 Those, those, those, that bad information just has a way of, once you release it, it just kind of sticks in there. Somebody will have a PDF from, like you said a month ago and you're just like, you know, that's why you got to, and that's what I love about project sharing is that it's alive.
Speaker 0 00:09:20 When the venue shows up with the chair diagram, that's five revisions old. Yeah, exactly. And it says there are only 3000 chairs and then we're telling them there's 5,000 and they're wondering what the heck's going on. For sure. So you get in, you get in early, you're listening constantly to what everybody's saying, because you're right. I mean, scenic, uh, you know, the designer has some crazy idea that some guy needs to fly in on a surf board from the back of the room and that it's just magically going to work. And then suddenly you're calling out saying, did we have, this is new information to me, um, you know, catching those challenges, um, you know, drawings, keeping them organized, keeping everybody on the same page. Um, so it's like wrangling cats at that point, trying to keep everybody from messing up something that's already been planned. Um, how do you organize all that information? What are you using Vectorworks as you mentioned, um, what else are you, what else do you do to keep that information organized?
Speaker 2 00:10:28 Um, I use internally we use, uh, Dropbox and cloud services to manage our files. Um, when I'm working, uh, especially with the cat, I got a great big, I I'm. I prefer, uh, I have a large monitor, 42 inch big one. I don't really like the multi-screen monitors that a lot that some others use and we actually operate pretty close to a hundred percent paperless until about four or five days before the show. And that all kind of speaks to, to trying to keep that bad information out there. And, and, and, and, uh, you know, it's not, we're swapping documents and, you know, and some of my guys will print stuff off, but when I leave for a gig, you know, that, you know, part of it is I don't have to remember that binder of paper that I've built up going through all my notes. That's why I could try to keep it all electronically. I used to have that binder. Um, yeah, but in both files over the last five years, I've managed to, I'd say we're pretty close to a hundred percent paperless at this point.
Speaker 0 00:11:39 Awesome. So managing folders, managing drawing. So actually there's a good question. Drawing names. How do you name your files? So you don't cause I mean, you have to have a very similar naming a structure, I guess this is something that a lot of people don't think much about unless you're in the content world. Um, but it's like, you know, version two will, what time of the day was that made change? Whatever. How do you, how do you keep all that
Speaker 2 00:12:09 Structured? Right. Um, when it's, when it's our internal stuff, um, I usually tag whatever the file is and I'll, I'll tag it with a V one R one, small V one smaller one version, one revision one. And if I'm, if I've got a file, you know, whatever the, whether it's my gear list, for example, you know, and we're getting this much gear, well, we've changed it now. I've got a new version and, and on my file extensions and on the paperwork, I keep track of version and revision. Um, folder wise, I divide, I have my clients, uh, the, you know, the people who are writing the check to me and then there, and then another folder with their clients, then it breaks down into year and I manage it that way. And again, I'll go back to project sharing, um, with Vectorworks those drawings are, there's no versions, there's no good point. You know, it just, uh, all I have for my main drawing is one file I don't have, I don't have a chain list of, of extensions and file names with Vectorworks. Okay.
Speaker 0 00:13:20 Well, makes, makes perfect sense. Um, so thinking about organization, um, are there any other project management solutions? Are you guys just straight like Excel spreadsheets for managing gear lists and equipment lists and all the other stuff that comes along with that from Vectorworks and other stuff that you create, or are there other, is there any sort of, uh, uh, you know, like people use a sauna or different types of like, Oh, here's to do's and here's procurement lists and et cetera,
Speaker 2 00:13:53 You know, I, uh, we'll use Evernote to as, um, and it's just, uh, I don't know if you're familiar with that or not, but it's a, it's a note taking app and you, okay. You have notebooks. So every show has a notebook and that has to do lists and question lists and you know, and that when I'm working on a show, I have my, uh, Vectorworks window open. And on the right hand side, I have never, no, I have my notebook. So anytime, anytime I'm thinking something anytime, and then we go to that, as far as managing all that data, it's just, it's a custom spreadsheet. Um, I know, uh, when I do load calculations, there's, there's a couple of different options for load calculations. I have found what's available currently to be a little short in flexibility. Um, so I, uh, it's part of my spreadsheet. I have an engineering background and I've designed the load is also part of the same spreadsheet that manages their data. And it's kind of that spreadsheet. So the heart of the company basically is given that to ma to worse,
Speaker 0 00:15:03 Speaking of load calcs, I mean, that's a critic that might be the most critical point and part of what you do, uh, making sure that everything's gonna stay in the air and not come down. Um, what about the new brace work stuff from Vectorworks? Is it, is it adequate yet or is there enough information that you can get in there? Have you been using it? I honestly, haven't been following a lot of that. I know companies that are using it. What's your impression or your opinion of that?
Speaker 2 00:15:31 Um, well, I've, I've had it. Um, I had it since from when they came out with it, so I, I have hopes for it and I think it is a very valuable tool. Um, I would describe it not a year ago, two years ago. I would've said it's in its infancy. Well, it's, you know, it's past infancy, it's, you know, maybe a middle-schooler at this point. Um, yeah, it does. If you're putting a straight trust in a room and you're not enjoying it and you don't have any angles and, you know, there's little, little places, um, that, that brace works struggles with. Uh, and now that was six months ago, so, and they, the Vectorworks as a company is putting a lot of effort into developing it. So I'm sure that it will grow into something, uh, you know, that doesn't have so many short little holes in it.
Speaker 0 00:16:31 Okay. Good to know. I mean, that's, uh, I mean the more things we have that I don't want to say simplify our job, but help us to do it more effectively, um, is, is going to be critical to moving forward and helping us provide more value for our customers and our clients.
Speaker 2 00:16:48 Right. And, and, and doing what they're doing with price works is a, uh, no, it's kind of a, it's a sticky thing to, to, to deal with because you're, you're going into, you're going to be doing calculations that the, that the person who's operating the program, things can go really wrong if they don't really understand how that program works, you know, you have to make sure that this device is attached. And, and it's just, I don't know, the, the, I, if I need some, I mean, I have brace works. I have my own load, calculating method. I have an engineering degree, but if I need some real answers, I go find the guy who's got the structural engineering, professional engineering, like, like, and, and I, my concern with things like brace works is that it, it's going to tell people that they know more than they actually do or feel that they're capable of, of solving. Um, and it's not that the camp, but it's not easy. There was a, there's a big learning curve.
Speaker 0 00:17:57 Yeah. So even in those cases, then double-checking yourself, uh, running the numbers, running the math, even if you see, you know, because like you said, if, if one of the lighting designers, you know, they put, they put a fixture, you know, or the eight fixtures on a trust, and they weren't connected to that piece of trust. Suddenly that weight doesn't calculate and you see something that says it weighs 1500 pounds on a, on a one ton point. And now it actually is like 2100 pounds on a one ton point. Um, and that is something that will bring a load into a halt almost instantaneously. Um, you know, uh, yeah.
Speaker 2 00:18:40 And it's, it's, it's just, um, being able to, even with my own load calculations where I know that program, I know that I know exactly the math that's going on it when I'm done with the show I'll back off and I'll look at every point and I'll say, does that, does that make sense? Yeah. Does it make sense that that one that's by the speakers is a lot heavier. Okay. That's why that one's a thousand pounds heavier and just kind of, um, and, and I'd hate to have people running a program where they don't have that final step, that final, I need to stand back and look at this and make sure the program does what it says it's doing. Yeah. If that makes sense. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:19:23 Makes perfect sense. I mean, we, we put a lot of faith in technology these days, um, but technology is not trained to catch, um, to catch issues like that. They're not trained to see the discrepancy. They're only there. They're, they're only trained to see the data and they're only trained to see the data that we put there. And so breaks, brace works would never tell you, Oh, Hey, there's this stuff hanging in the middle of the air. That's not connected to a trust and has no load bearing to what's there. And that's not Vectorworks as issue. That's just the nature of, we didn't tell it what to do. So it doesn't give us a proper answer. Um, very, very, very good thought. I love, um, I like catching those things and at least keep it in the back of my head. Cause you always want to double check yourself.
Speaker 0 00:20:15 You know, when I'm doing drawings, when I'm doing distances, when I'm running, you know, I'll triple check. It's like spacing fire. Marshall does, is this right? Are these the right distances? Did this get, you know, this got moved? Are we sure that this backstage space is big enough for that, you know, that walkway or that, that thing to get through? Cause I don't want to get on site. And all of a sudden I see this, you know, the stage is now, you know, six inches from the back wall when in the drawing, it was, uh, you know, two feet. And how does that affect else? Um, so I like, I love that concept. I love that idea. Of course safety, um, is, is key. I've noticed that a lot of rigors have ended up being like the safety guy on a lot of show sites. I mean, that seems like a natural progression. Um, have you ever thought about kind of branching into that world of just, you know, being that, that onsite safety person versus just being the lead rigger, the head rigger that of course is going to make sure that everything is safe from his standpoint, but then branching into the world of just general safety as well.
Speaker 2 00:21:25 You know, I, I've never, uh, I've never really thought about that. I like that idea though. I mean, cause it, it does, it's a mindset. Yeah. It's absolutely a mindset and uh, it would, it would, uh, it would flow well. Um, but no, personally I've, um, you know, there there's benefits to rigging and that is when the ringing is done. You get to go hang out.
Speaker 0 00:21:55 We yes. Hanging out as nice until someone says, Oh, we got to bring this trust in because that life stopped working and then terrible, go ahead.
Speaker 2 00:22:07 Oh yeah. Or, or the, you know, the streamers on the trust got something to do, go get the streamers off the trucks.
Speaker 0 00:22:15 Oh my word, gosh, streamer. Yeah, man. You know, when we did a, when we did that doTERRA show a couple of years ago, cleaning up all that confetti and stuff after those, I've never, I've never seen more confetti all my life after that, after that job, I mean, it was like raking the yard when you had, when you were in a forest and all the trees, all the leaves fell at one time. I was just,
Speaker 2 00:22:44 It wasn't that the year of the suck truck,
Speaker 0 00:22:46 Uh, sounds about right. Yeah, I was
Speaker 2 00:22:49 Yeah. The big vacuum, correct? Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:22:51 Oh my word geesh man. I mean, dude, it was like, it was like three inches thick. I've never, I mean, it was just crazy. So that was quite an experience. Um, speaking of speaking of confetti, the only time confetti's ever used is onsite. So, uh, we get on site. You're the first guy in the room. I mean, if there's an 8:00 AM call, I know Harry Harry's there at like seven 15 and he's walking in the door, looking at what's going on, getting ready to Mark things out. Um, you know, what are you, what are you looking for when you're managing a project on site you're, you're coming in, of course all the general stuff, all the right gear there, stage hands, all those things. But the process that you're looking through, what is your thought process? When you walk in the room, you know, walk me through that first part of it from the moment you walk into the room until gear starts rolling off the truck.
Speaker 2 00:23:43 Yeah. Uh, well we all my, I always like to make sure I beat the TD. That's my first that's my first goal is we'd like to be in there before the TD. Um, but you know, I, I set out, I'll have large drawings, even though our install process, we use hand-held size tablets as paper. I will make sure I've got one or two large drawings that show the room. And I kind of set myself up in a, out in the middle of the room, kind of where, and so that the rigors they'll they'll come there and it gives me a chance to kind of feel the crew, get an idea of how well they work together, how, you know, get the, just kind of understand them, do get to know him. And he's going to be the people you're working with for a little, kind of, not so much on this, um, work, you know, telling them what to do, but talk to them a little bit about their day.
Speaker 2 00:24:40 Um, and then once that once, you know, just kind of stay organized and be ready to go, of course, before load-in actually starts, we've also marked the floor. That's, that's another big one. Um, but then once that, once that starts to happen, once the show starts loading in, you know, we're obviously keeping a track of safety. I like watching the flow of the room because the rigor and that's kind of the whole base player thing. We can, we greatly affect how audio at times with video and it works with lighting and I'll just sit back and I'll make sure that the flow of the room that I had to pictured in my mind and worked with the different departments and talk to them about the order that the trusses are going in. I'll just make sure, just keep an eye on that flow and make sure that that's, that's continuing on.
Speaker 0 00:25:37 Yeah. How do you, um, one of the biggest challenges I always have is finding or confirming the center of the room. Um, we always think it's in one place, but probably I'd say 25% of the time we show up, especially if we haven't done a site visit and we realize, Oh crap, we were off by a foot because the drawing that they sent us is not right. Um, how, w how do you, do you always measure for center every single time, or do you just go off the drawing and go off of exactly what should be there and where the middle is?
Speaker 2 00:26:17 Well, uh, I'll, I will measure it more than one way first. Got it. Because it's such, it's so critical to everything. Um, if it's a new building, I'll, you know, I will, I'll look at the building. I'll have looked at the cat and I'll know, I expect to be this far off of this wall or it's, you know, it, it is symmetric this one. Um, sometimes it's, it's, you know, Hey, the center of the room is that beam, you know, but even if, even if I'm told that beam and the regain and the beams in the ceiling are all symmetrical, and that one beam goes down the center, when I'm out there, I'll put my laser on that and I will measure it just quickly. I'll just be like, let's make sure that the drawing and the house rigor and everyone that everything I've been told is right. And that that's, that's the place it is. Um, also, and that's, and that's the easiest, that's the best yeah. Is what it matches the rigging.
Speaker 0 00:27:15 Yeah. I agree. The, um, the marking of the room, um, insanely critical, especially me as a, as a TD, um, depending on the rigor to Mark every, you know, every piece of the rigging, the trust direction, uh, I mean, it's so helpful for, for what I do most of the time. Um, talk to me a little bit about marking the room, the process, what that looks like, you know, laying out tapes. Most of the time I see 300 foot tapes come out, taped down, you know, give me a little bit of that. Give me a little bit of that background.
Speaker 2 00:27:55 Um, basically you, you find either what the, the show uses as the, the zeros or a reference the data of the room. Yep. Um, I'll usually pick my own rigging reference of the room, because if I choose the reference correctly, I can make all the numbers positive. I'll choose, I'll start away from everything, but then you it's like building the room. You, you know, you build the grid once, you know that center and you established that flat line up along your upstage edge or whatever, whatever reference point gives you that straight line. And then you, you, you are, you know, picture your graph paper that you had in high school, and, you know, you've got your grids and, and you're just using those long tape measures to imitate that grid. Um, when you know, a building and there are certain buildings of the larger buildings in the country, Orlando, uh, the certain halls at the OCC DC, one of my major rooms is the, some of the halls at the salt palace and salt Lake.
Speaker 2 00:29:00 And there's a lot of other buildings that are like this too, where, um, you can actually Mark the room based on the beans because the beams are perfectly consistent throughout the building. So, and yeah, so then that speeds it up because you don't need your measuring tape. Now there's all ready. And again, the building has to be right. And I, I, I always hesitate when I talk to people about this, because it's a, it's a really bad idea to set up your rigging based upon the beams when you, when you don't know for sure that it makes a consistent cred. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:29:38 But I mean, it's an, you've done a couple of shows there. You always work from, you know, lay out your tapes on the outside, lay out tape in the middle, and then you've got people that are just boomed from your zero, from your zeros zero rigging zero, zero, which makes perfect sense. And then moving all the way down. Um, something I personally like to do is I like to give the rigor of the, the job of also marking my seating sections and the corners, but out a problem.
Speaker 2 00:30:07 And, and, and I know a lot of people, but if that's where I've always been, it's like, I'm making, who's going to hit that spot better than the rigger. Yep.
Speaker 0 00:30:17 A hundred percent, you know, and the first time, so a friend of mine many years ago, uh, asked me we were on the phone and I was, you know, big in my britches wanting to be, you know, look like I knew what I was doing. And he asked me, he's like, Hey man, do you want me to Mark seating sections for you? And, um, I told him, I was like, nah, I'll take care of it. Don't worry. It'll be easy. No problem. Well, we were in the, Oh, we were in the OCC and we were in hall a I think, and we were playing the corner on a hundred on a 200 degree arc. And so everything was curved and nothing was square. And I regretted every moment of not asking him to do that. After I realized that the pickle I got myself in and we did it and we figured it out, but it, it took 12 hours to, to lay it out the way that we had it set up.
Speaker 0 00:31:12 And I never, again, I promised myself, I would never again, try and do that on my own, in a big room. Cause I was, I was kicking myself so bad and I went back to him. I said, dude, I said, Chris, I will always ask you to do that. Anytime you do a show for me from now on. Cause I will never go through that. What I just went through to try and figure that out. Um, you know, what do you, how do you talk to the technical director when they want to be loading in at the same time, as you're trying to Mark out your floor, which I know is never a good thing. Um, you know, how, how do you talk them through the understanding? Cause there are a lot of, there are a lot of technical directors that are inexperienced. They don't understand the need. Talk to me about your communication with them in a situation where they say, Oh, well we're going to start market floor eight gears coming in the door at eight o'clock.
Speaker 2 00:32:07 Right. Well, you know, I'm, I'm usually pretty straight forward and I'll explain to them that, you know, you can't get it. And can I Mark the floor with a room full of gear? Yes. It'll take me about five hours longer. Yeah. So, you know, increase your labor budget so that I can make up for the length of time. It's going to add for me to do my job.
Speaker 0 00:32:31 Perfect. That's a great way. Add, add a couple thousand dollars to your budget. I'm happy to take an extra five hours if you want me to, but yeah, you're going to be behind
Speaker 2 00:32:40 Schedule about six hours from the first day. I, you know, if that's what you need to do, you go for it,
Speaker 0 00:32:46 Man. Yeah, I get it. Um, yeah, Mark and the floor is so critical. Um, so we Mark the floor, we get that done. We get everything ready to go. Gear starts rolling in, in most, in a general circumstance. How are you working the room back to front, front to back side to side? Um,
Speaker 2 00:33:07 Well you, uh, the cable trusses cable management is almost always the first thing to go up. Um, and, and ever, but outside of that, um, typically I work upstage to downstage to get to clear off, um, all those stage lighting so that those trusses can go up and also to clear the floor space so that the house can come in and start setting the stage and the screens can get me set up. Um, but again, there might be another show where for whatever reason we need, we need to have this part of the room done first. And then we focus on that. But typically it's it's cable, cable management trusses go up first and then upstage to downstage to clear off that heavily focused work area everyone's working.
Speaker 0 00:33:55 No, exactly. There's always more motors over the stage for the most part than there are out in the house for the delay projection trusses. But there are people that believe those are the most important so
Speaker 2 00:34:06 Well. Right, exactly. Especially the, the delay projectionist. He thinks she thinks it's the most important
Speaker 0 00:34:12 Harry, when are we, or why don't we get to get these dresses up buddy? Come on. Um, so then everything's up, we get it in. You're managing the crew, you know, I mean standard stuff, pickling motors, putting motors on trusts. Um, where, where does, where does, where do you see the rigors responsibility? I don't want to say you don't take responsibility for other things, but where do you see that responsibility stop? And then making sure that the other crew members are doing, um, their jobs. And, and I asked this question because of this, I know a lot of guys, especially rigors that will do whatever the heck needs to be done. I would say that rigors are some of the most underrated guys on a crew because they jump in and help with whatever it is like the rigor is the guy that's going to be pulling gear off a truck.
Speaker 0 00:35:03 He's going to be hanging a light when people are behind, he's going to be putting a speaker in the right place. Like if it's, you know, pushing it to where it needs to be, it's not going to like, those are the type of people. Rigors are, uh, they're the hardest workers there. How do you kind of help define that? Not letting a more lazy crew member, uh, from getting out of their job because, Oh, well the rigor will they'll do their thing, whatever. Um, and, and hell and helping keeping them momentum moving forward. So you guys don't get doing stuck doing stuff that, that another crew member should be doing.
Speaker 2 00:35:38 Yeah. You know, I try to keep my eye on it. So that, so that those little, those kinds of problems don't snowball, uh, well, while you were asking the question, I was immediately thinking of, of people, uh, cabling, you know, running their cables between two trusses that are supposed to be running independently and someone sticks a cable for it. So at the beat, you know what, when the, when that audio guy comes in or when that lead video guy comes in, I'm watching every little thing they're doing on that first cable. And if I have a problem, then I go over and I'll explain, you know, you guys gotta do this. Or, or even keeping those, uh, trust cable coming off trust is keeping it neat. Yeah. You know, like just everyone, let's just throw it on there and you know, they'll say, well, it's ready to go out.
Speaker 2 00:36:24 And, um, and I, and I always try to do these kinds of things early on in the process so that I'm not looking at this 10 times, I've just got the first one and now, and then I like, you guys got to keep this cable nice and straight and you know, and I do the best I can with it. Um, but if, and of course I try to have good rapport going with my rigging crew so that if I can't address or solve those kinds of problems with the department head, I can at least get the rigors to be like, Oh, okay. You know, I'll say like the video is having trouble making those cables. Neat. Can you go, you know, and then there'll be like, okay, we'll go do that. You know, and try to keep it. Um, you know, I, I try not to get too aggressive. Most rigors are, kinda, can be a little bit intimidating. We tend to be kind of big and dirty little grumpy. And I try to counter that. There's plenty of that at the gig, you know? Um, but if I, if I gotta pull it out, I can, of course,
Speaker 0 00:37:28 Yeah. You keep the grumpy in your back pocket for only those critical moments where it's needed. Exactly. So we get the gear in. So it's in cables are run, we're trimming trusses, uh, you know, checking, what are your, what are your processes before a trust is flies out. So you, you motors up span, sets done, or however it's connecting to the trust before it goes up. Um, you know, what is your process of walking through each trust before you take it to trench?
Speaker 2 00:38:01 Well, you know, we like, we always call it like the safety check. You know, you go, you just start on one end and you work your way down to the other end and you check, uh, as you're going down, you look for all the, all the things that are hanging on the trust, um, needs to be safety cable. Do you want it, or have a S uh, core or eighth inch safety wire on it? Yep. Um, making sure that the cable, none of the cable can fall off, that it's all dressed on. And that kind of goes, where do you're talking about? Cause the rigors are the ones who are doing the safety. So if they're looking down a trust and all of the cable can fall off while it might be tempting to put that on and I will have talked to them and say, well, let's talk, tell the electrician to finish it up.
Speaker 2 00:38:43 Pretty much. There's a bunch of them. Um, but you know, you check the, make sure everything's hanging safety, make sure things are tight. Um, make sure all the bolts, holding the trust together, not just look at them, physically put your hands. Yeah. You know, when I do it, I'll go to that junction. And then it just in the back of mine, it's one, two, three, four, one, two, three. Like I touch them all, you know? Cause you can get those habits. And sometimes, you know, so we're trying to build these muscle memories of going through that safety because it's gotta be safe. You look at all your rigging connections, you make sure they're proper, no side loaded shackles. Um, and you, and you fix what, what isn't right. You don't, you know, sometimes we, ah, that's that doesn't matter. And it's like, fix it. You know, it might not matter today, fix it, you know? Um, and that's, that's a big thing. The other thing that, that you make sure nobody's used the trust as a table, too many times, somebody working on a light and they set their wrench on there and they go to lunch or they put their, you know, even a USB stick from 40 feet can really hurt. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:39:52 Harry, I left my multimeter on top of that light fixture. That's now 35 feet in the air. Uh,
Speaker 2 00:39:58 They ended up in a few Lyfts getting people's tools.
Speaker 0 00:40:01 Oh gosh, man. So safely getting equipment into the air safety to off we're ready for the show. I know that we kind of breezed through a whole bunch of like stuff there span, sets, shackles. Like there's so much there's there. We could get nitty gritty and that's not really what we're looking for per se. But yeah.
Speaker 2 00:40:20 And, and one thing that I'd like to say this, this, this is for the purpose of rigors running anyone running the trust. First of all, you should be a rigger before you're running. Um, but however many hoists or I'm already points are on that trust. When you're holding down that go button, your eyeball should be going from each one and back it should be doing nothing else than monitoring those devices. You're running. I had a guy one time, it was just an audio stack was an audio guy and he's running it. He's down under like I walk up on the stage and this stack is going up. I look around, I'm like, who's running this. And like he was under the stage pushing a box and you're just holding that button down and you it's like, he's like, it's not going to hit anything. But what you got to remember is those devices, they don't care what you think. And they are very powerful. Um, well, so people got to keep when it's going up. Yep. When those things are moving, keep your eyes on those on the, of the points as they're going up,
Speaker 0 00:41:27 Always eyeballs, always on what is moving and, and the things that are moving a, I mean, I couldn't agree more, um, you know, we've had our fair share a number of years ago. I was just thinking about this the other day. I had a, a grid at a hotel in LA that, um, the unnamed, uh, in-house safety company was not attentive enough when they installed the motors in the right places. And they didn't pay attention to their own load calculations. And as it went up, everything in the middle, it started to, you know, started to do this. And, uh, thankfully we, because they were watching it, they caught it. Um, but I mean, we were looking at, when we brought it back down, there was 18 inches of deflection from center to end. I mean, it was, it was huge. Um, and, and thankfully nothing broke and nobody got hurt.
Speaker 0 00:42:20 But, um, you know, if, if some of my guys hadn't been paying attention, I don't think they would've noticed it because they didn't have anybody out front looking at it. My guys were looking at it. And so it's like, it's so critical, especially when you're moving a big chunk of motors, you know, this was 18 motors all moving at once because everything was tied together. And sometimes we don't have a choice. We have to do that. But, um, eyeballs up is, is huge all the time. I couldn't agree more. Thank you for saying that. Um, so in your projects, what are the things that you travel with? So you travel the country, you do a lot of shows. What are the things that you, what are the critical things that you travel with?
Speaker 2 00:43:04 Um, well obviously my, my laptop and I also carry a hard drive that has a clone of my collap top on it. So the, if something were to happen to my computer, um, I've only had one thing over the last 15, 20 years, but you know, if someone spills wine on your keyboard, that happened to somebody on an airplane that I knew, you know, just things like that. So that, because what I am laying down matters to absolutely everybody in that room. Yeah. I have to have that information. So I make sure that I've got two copies of my computer when I leave. Um, cloud services have changed this a little bit, but I still do that when I'm traveling, you know, work-wise or just kind of in general,
Speaker 0 00:43:57 I don't care. I mean, we're just talking about what we do. We're people too. I mean, it's not like we're robots.
Speaker 2 00:44:02 I, I bring, I always call it my sanity machine and it is a small traveling classical guitar that I have and that I sit and I can, you know, forget about that horrible gig if for at least a few minutes or, you know, or play something nice for that great gig. Um, no is horrible. No gig is horrible area. Come on. Oh yeah. You just forget about it. That's right. Um, and I bring, I bring stuff from home. I bring 'em little trinkets from my kids made me over the years or, you know, the other thing that I highly suggest people would be to get yourself a nest camera so that when you're in the back of that ballroom and you're in some cold place and you just want to be home, I've re I'll, I'll sit and work on my computer and I'll throw up my nest camera. That's got my front yard on my computer, just so that like I can at least for a little bit, I can look, Oh, there's home. It's still there.
Speaker 0 00:45:02 That's awesome. I love that. Um, that's fantastic. You know, we travel a lot working long hours, 14, 16 hour days. I mean, um, you need something to keep you grounded and, uh, being grounded is, is incredibly important and it helps all of us do our, do our jobs better keeps us from being a little grumpy sometimes. I mean, it's, it's, it's a win-win for everybody. Um, so for every job that you do, what are the three things that you need on every job to be successful? And it can be anything, I don't care what it is, but like, it could be your coffee. I, it doesn't matter to me, but like what are those three things that you need on every job to be success?
Speaker 2 00:45:47 Well, I, I would think of probably the tools, like a laser tools, either a plumb, Bob defined those beams or a DISTO to measure those distances. Um yep. Uh, chalk as a rigger, got to have your chalk. Yes. So you can Mark whatever you need to Mark. Um, you know, again, I guess as far as crucial for show the paperwork that I've generated through our, we have a, like a packet that we put together for each show that's got labeled lead-ins and drawings and lists and, and that, and I put that together in a packet and that's that's if I've got chalk and bat and my lasers yeah. I'll have a 95% day work box and all that other stuff. That's great. But you know, give me those and I can, I can make it happen
Speaker 0 00:46:42 As we're traveling, the things we do. Uh, most of us are freelance. Uh, you know, I would say the vast majority of the people that I know, um, are freelance. How, how do, how do they find work? How do you find work, especially as you're starting out as a freelancer, what did you do? What are the, the practices, the things that you did to get, you know, to get work, find, work, be available, whatever that looks like,
Speaker 2 00:47:10 You know, um, uh, network, network, and network, um, get to know people, but like when you're starting and I still do this, um, I, I would eat, I would take, you know, you've become the freelancer and you're the lead and you're, you're learning this stuff. Um, I'd take jobs as a rigger on a local call, or I would work for another production rigor and, you know, try to, even though it's not necessarily, uh, directly what I'm doing, but that gives you exposure like, Oh, this is how I'm doing it in my little freelance world that I'm building, but I can go over here and I can watch this guy and explore their system and just kind of take the bet, look at what people are doing, that you can run into, whether it's through a labor call or anything and just get a feel for it.
Speaker 2 00:48:06 You know, um, friend of mine broke into pyro by literally following the rolling stones around in his van. And he would show up every day and eventually people were like, who is that guy? And he, you know, and he knew that knew the pyro guy enough. Um, and after a couple of weeks they gave him a spot on the bus. Wow. Yeah. Cause he just, he just showed like, and I believe, I think it was Barry, uh, Jake Berry was, was the PM or the, at that time. Cause he would always tell us the story about the PM would be came up to me like, who are you? And he's like, well just here and I'm trying to learn, you got a seat on the bus and he walked away, you know, so get into it, you know, ask those questions, get to know those people. Obviously, if you want to be in a ring and you probably know a rigger, um, go along with them. There's, there's plenty of times, you know, if, if, you know, if make yourself available and when that call drops, go follow it. And if you, if you want to know and you want to ask questions and yeah, it's, it's not that hard. If you got the, you know, you got a fire in you that's and people see that that's right. See it right away.
Speaker 0 00:49:23 I'll always, I'll always take work, work ethic and, and effort over skill. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because I can teach anybody to do just about anything. Um, but man attitude is the one thing I can't, I can't teach. Um, it's, it's tough one. Um, what's the toughest job you've ever done? Like when you think back, you say, Holy crap, I can't believe I got through that. That was the hardest thing. Or that was the toughest one or what, what is, what is that for you?
Speaker 2 00:49:57 Um, I had, uh, I had a show, I don't know, 10,000, 15,000 seat, general session, big room. Um, and it was for the, uh, mom and pop AAV company kind of an all in one shop. So yeah. So all the leads kind of everyone knows each other and they're very tightly connected and I was the head rigger and our master electrician. Um, his wedding was on load out, so we lost him. We lost our assistant master electrician and my assistant rigger. Ah, so, so we had four leads on the end. Um, it was down to me on the out and I had about a hundred about a crew of about a hundred. Wow. And thankfully it was in a town where everyone kind of knew me. So, so I had enough personal relationships that I could, you know, say, Hey, you go over and work with these people and kind of assign stuff. But, uh, yeah, that was, that was probably, you know, the one, one of the ones I remember for sure.
Speaker 0 00:51:01 Well, and that's, I mean, those jobs that's really tough. I mean, I'm glad that guy got married, but
Speaker 2 00:51:07 He still is married so
Speaker 0 00:51:09 Well. Hey, all right. That's good. We'll take that as a positive. Um, those are tough because ultimately, I mean, at that point you basically became like the assistant TD at that point, you're, you're so much more than a rigor. I mean, right. You're managing the lighting and rigging and I mean, everything else that comes along with it, um, th that's like having, that's like, I don't want to say it's two sides of your brain, but it's trying to like separate those two. And, and because it operates one way this way and one way this way, and it's just,
Speaker 2 00:51:42 Yeah. And I definitely had to, I remember like being like, okay, there's I am not going to do this the way I normally do. I have to stay focused on a completely different set of things.
Speaker 0 00:51:54 Yeah. How did you, how did you go through, what, how did you do, how did you work yourself through that? Was that like, uh, you know, we just go one trust at a time kind of thing instead of trying to bring it all down. And what did you do to make, to make it?
Speaker 2 00:52:05 Yeah, w w we kept, we, I separated them into basically groups that the had an area so that, and then I could stand back and kind of monitor the progress over in this area and then monitor some progress in this area. Got it. Um, w we weren't under, uh, it wasn't one of those, you know, starting at 11 o'clock at night load outs, it was an 8:00 AM load outs. So time-wise, I had, I had some, you know, there was, there was some relief from some of it, but, uh, and you know, I know most of the year got back where it came from, but I'm going to guess that things weren't packed. Right. I wouldn't,
Speaker 0 00:52:49 At that point, man, just throw it in a box. Oh, that's labeled.
Speaker 2 00:52:53 Yeah. I mean, the nice thing was, is the most of the gear, a good chunk of it came from the same company or that we're, all those people got were working. Yeah. They got the wedding, but I'm sure they came back into the shop on Monday and spent a couple of days straightening the pile of crap out that I sent through.
Speaker 0 00:53:10 And they better not have been cursing your name either since he bailed them out. I can't believe Harry would do this to us. I just dropped out doc. Well, the guy, the guy that got married wasn't there. So he locked down.
Speaker 2 00:53:21 Exactly. He's still out.
Speaker 0 00:53:24 What, uh, what do you like the most about being a rigger? What's your, what's your favorite part about being a rigger?
Speaker 2 00:53:30 Um, I would say my favorite part of rigging, you know, um, would be when I'm up in a lift and there's some sort of rigging problem that has to be solved and I get to go up in that lift and I don't have to listen to anybody and nobody talks to me and I love being up at Heights. I've always loved Heights and math and angles and knots, and I'm just in my own little like world. And whenever that happens, I'm always just super happy. And then I'll sometimes just wait a minute to hang out there. And then it's like, okay, back down, you know what I mean? You go back down. I
Speaker 0 00:54:13 Left my radio on the ground, on her
Speaker 2 00:54:16 Face. Exactly, exactly. You know, so, um, that's not, you know, that's, that's when I, that's my happy spot, what I'm, as far as being a rigor goes. That's awesome.
Speaker 0 00:54:26 I love that. Now. I won't tell anyone, if you tell me, I promise I'll tell nobody at all, ever, what's your least favorite part about rigging and being a rigger?
Speaker 2 00:54:40 Uh, you know, I liked the job. It's like, you know, I don't, I was thinking about that and it's just being away from home. Yeah. I really, I really love what I do. I love that, you know, I love working with breakers. There's nothing better than walking into a room full of just really grumpy people and getting out, getting something to happen
Speaker 0 00:55:05 Outstanding and making them smile while they do it.
Speaker 2 00:55:09 Absolutely. You know, if I can make a grumpy person to have a good day, you know, Hey, good for me.
Speaker 0 00:55:14 That's right. That's where it's all worth it. Um, so what can I do if I, uh, if I look at the future of being in the gig world, being in the ag industry, touring, whatever, it doesn't really matter in terms of that. But if, if, if I, as the listener wanted to be a rigger, wanting to learn more about rigging and how it works and the process and how to do it, how to do it, right. What should I do to, to get started on that path and, and get a little and learn more about this particular section of the industry?
Speaker 2 00:55:51 You know, um, first and foremost, I think that, and this would be true probably for every department at this point is start learning CAD. I know that sounds weird, but if you've not just to be, that would be, if you, if you're looking to be a production rigor. Yeah. Um, and there's all kinds of classes for CAD and webinars and YouTube videos. Um, the there's a big shortage for, of people who have CAD skills and understand Regi. So if you start working on your CAD skills, now when you be, when you've got, you know, in parallel with your rigging, it just, it all, they compliment each other and they, they really help you understand drawings and, and where people are coming from. Um, yeah. But you know, beyond that, talk to those rigors, like I said, you know, go show that, show the interest. Um, you gotta be willing to do some physical labor. It's a lot of work and that you gotta be, uh, yeah. Like Heights, you know, these are things that that'll, you know, so embrace that or learn how to like your Heights. Um,
Speaker 0 00:57:08 And you got to like colon things up really, really high.
Speaker 2 00:57:12 Yeah, exactly. You gotta, you gotta like sweating cause you're gonna work. Um, get certified when you've got a little more time on your belt and not just, I went for ATCP certification, um, there's SPRAT certification, rope access stuff. There's all kinds of, of different certifications that are used in our industry. Um, and there's arguments about the value of each, any certification and, you know, just get, get a certification because when you, when people are looking at that pool of people, when I'm looking for someone and I need to bring them on, I've never met them before. I know nothing of them, they're coming off a personal recommendation. I need as much like, who is this person as I can get, if I see any kind of certification that tells me that they put some effort into something. Yeah. Even if it's a motor class certification that, you know, dog and motor class certification, but you know, you go to the class and you get, you get your certificate or whatever you get. At least that tells me that they've done something that they're, like I said, have the attitude,
Speaker 0 00:58:26 How long does it take to get SPRAT or etc. ATCP certified.
Speaker 2 00:58:32 I cannot speak towards SPRAT in any details. Um, other than what I know that people who've gotten Spratt SPRAT is a fairly, uh, difficult and, um, intensive there involves training and an actual onsite test with Lopes doing the whole process. Um, and there's different levels and all this, as far as ATCP, um, you have to show that you have, uh, a certain number of hours. There's, uh, there's points that you get, but you have after establish hours that you've worked as a rigor. Um, and then pass that test. They, they, the ECCP is a sit down. It's a pencil paper test. Um, it is more of a, it's not so specialized as spread spread. I can't even tell you what it wrote backs us. Yeah. That's what spread means. Um, you know, so it depends which one you're going for, but the TCP, uh, put your time in, um, I, I recommend it. There's people, there's a lot of, you know, one of my main buildings requires UTC P certification. So when I'm looking for ed to send to that room, I, I have to eliminate everybody that isn't etcd certified. Okay,
Speaker 0 00:59:54 Great. Good to know. Um, all right. E T C P certified get it. That's the way that that's the right way to make sure you're going to be, or can even be a rigor. And, and I think that certifications are only going to become more, uh, more prevalent. I mean, really, if there's something that we can do in our industry to remain more safe, it's it's to make sure that we are trained up in the proper way to do things, um, because it's just, it's good. And education is great too. I mean, you're going to learn stuff. I did motor class, uh, years ago from cm. Uh, I'd never torn a motor apart ever, but it was super cool to like, tear it down all the way down to the guts and then put it all the way back together and then suddenly hit that go button and poop.
Speaker 0 01:00:41 And it works. Um, I know that he TCP isn't exactly the same, but just getting that knowledge, gaining that information and understanding is fantastic. Um, so real quick, before we go last kind of the last thing I always like to ask is what are two things? Uh, of course, right now we're on a bit of a hiatus from events, which is never fun. Nobody likes that, but you know, on the next gig, uh, what, what is, what are two things that, that somebody can do to be more gig ready for their next gig? They just finished a gig. Maybe they've got another one coming up in a week or two, uh, what are some focus points that they can say, all right, I'm going to do better next time if I do this,
Speaker 2 01:01:27 Um, I would suggest having a, of some sort of note taking process during the load in it's really hard. It's a very cause you're super swamped and these little problems come up and you've got a fire and someone throws that at you. And you've got to put it out quick to take those extra 10 seconds, open up that notes and make a note to yourself. Got it. And, and then when you turn around at the next gig, you can say, Oh, I forgot. I forgot to flip the seat layout when I marked the points. But I remember this now, so now I'm going to do it.
Speaker 0 01:02:07 Perfect. Number two. Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:02:12 Number two. Um, but I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 0 01:02:21 You know, ultimately taking notes, I am guilty. Like you said, that extra 10 seconds. Um, it's that little bit of want too, that goes a long way. Um, so maybe it's the mental game of actually being willing to, to get over that hump from the, well, maybe I'll do that next time too. Yes. I'm going to do that.
Speaker 2 01:02:46 Right. And I feel that same, that what you're talking about, that mental hump, I feel that also, if I'm, um, working in on a detailed some sort of detail on a show and I'm almost done with my process, and then I realize, Oh, that little piece of information is wrong. Part of me just wants to say, Oh, it's no big deal. Like, I'll just remember that that number is wrong. And when the show happens, I'll make sure that the correct number happens. But I have learned to not do that. And you go back and you fix it. And that that's that mental leap that you're talking about. Like, it's, I didn't take notes. Always. I learned to take after getting burned after making, Oh, I made this mistake. Oh, this is the fourth time I've made this mistake. Oh yeah. Write that down. So yeah.
Speaker 0 01:03:41 Yep. I'm with you. I mean, that intelligent, I'm intelligent. I don't want to say intelligent recall, but something I personally I've been thinking a lot about is that what we do takes a lot of mental energy. Yes. And the thing that separates us, those of us in the ag industry from many other groups and my goal is not to segregate us, but to say like the people in the ag industry put that thought in day in and day out, because we have a different goal to achieve every time we set foot in a room, um, you know, every time we're rigging a show doing an event setting, you know, the goal, yes. We're setting up a bunch of gear, but every single outcome is going to be slightly different. Um, you know, and, and that requires time, intellect, intelligence, like actually putting your brain to work.
Speaker 0 01:04:37 And I've noticed personally in a lot of ways, lots of people don't want to do that. They just want it to work. They just want it to do its thing. You know, they pick up their cell phone. I just want it to work. I just want it to do what it's supposed to do. Whereas when we're working, um, man, you gotta take, you have to think, you have to put that process in that thought process in, and that's what separates the good technicians and the good operators from the great operators and the great rigors and the great, uh, people who really know what they're doing and do it really, really well.
Speaker 2 01:05:08 Um, I also think that it's that intensity that you're talking about, which is why gigs are so hard, why when you get done with a gig, it takes about two weeks and then it gets filed into that pile of gigs. I did like you lose detail, you lose you're like, what show did that nuclear bomb go off on?
Speaker 0 01:05:32 Well, me and Orlando,
Speaker 2 01:05:32 No. You know what I mean? Like you just kind of forget those details because you're so intense for so many hours for so many days, it's like this. And then
Speaker 0 01:05:43 Yeah, I'll, I'll keep note pad open on my desktop all the time. And I don't always remember to do it, but I'll sit down. And like, if I, if I S I just came back from solving a problem that could have been avoided by changing the drawing or adjusting, you know, adding, uh, adding a distance in that was like that corner that goes to that thing. You know, the fire Marshall said was supposed to be 15 feet and it was 14 feet, eight inches. And he flipped out about it, you know? Um, but going back and making that note, you know, confirming whatever that thing is, um, just that is learn that is making yourself better for the next time. And that's nobody teaching you anything that's, that is all that is, is you actually training yourself. Um, and that makes for better gigs. Um, and we love that.
Speaker 0 01:06:33 I mean, dude, you're, you're only as good as your last gig. Um, and, and so we want to keep getting better, but thank you so much for taking the time. I know we went a little over an hour, but I, I loved it. It was super fun. Um, I really appreciate you coming in joining, uh, joining me to talk about what we do. Uh, if somebody wants to learn more about rigging, they want to contact you. What's the best way to get a hold of Harry Schaefer, um, and, and kind of get some more information. If they want to learn something, they have questions, whatever they want to hire you. They want to say, man, I need that hairy guy. He is the best of the best, which we know he is. Uh, so they should call you to do all of their gigs, but, uh, what, what's the best way to get ahold of you?
Speaker 2 01:07:17 Uh, first let me say, thank you. Thank you for doing this. Thanks for having it. I really, uh, I think it's kind of fun. Good. It's nice. It's nice to sit around and talk. And like I said, uh, you know, and especially at this time, not be depressed about, you know, the work world and what that all means. Um, but if anyone, uh, you know, the best would be email
[email protected].
Speaker 0 01:07:43 Awesome. I'll put it in the, I'll put it in the show notes too. So, you know, people that can't spell recluse right off the top of their head,
Speaker 2 01:07:51 I usually go C a N Y O N R E C L U S e.com. I should've thought that through better. When I, when I chose the name.
Speaker 0 01:08:00 Nah, it's all good. It sounds great. And it fits so well with your, with your character and your personality. So when I, so I know I can find the recluse in the back room and the little tiny office with the red, with the little light. And I know I know where I'm going or the, or the orange light with the gobo in it. I know that that's where I'm going to find you so outstanding. Well, awesome, Harry, thank you so much. Um, have a great day. I appreciate you taking the time for us today and, uh, it was awesome. All right. Thanks Jordan. Thanks so much for taking the time.
Speaker 3 01:08:33 Listen today, I know that as a professional each and every one of us want to be better tomorrow than we were today. That's why we created the gig ready podcast. This is a place where professionals can come and look at what they're doing. Look at how they're doing it and get better. Every single day. We are solely value for value. We're not going to take corporate interests. We're not going to take sponsorship money. We want you to get better solely because that's what you want. So please give us some feedback. I want to get better. I want to create better podcasts. I want to create better events, just like you do. So if you have some value, you want to give back ideas, thoughts, questions, even, even the ability to be a little critical at times, I would love to hear from you. Thank you so much. I hope you have a great day. Stay safe out there and stay. Get ready. <inaudible>.
