Speaker 0 00:00:00 Welcome to the gig ready podcast. Thanks for joining us today. Really excited that we get to learn and grow together. Ultimately here at gig ready, we want each and every one of us to become better at what we do each and every day, whether you're a touring professional, whether you're a corporate event professional or somewhere in between each day, we have the opportunity to either stay where we are or get better. And through this podcast, we hope you learn something that takes you to the next level. As we work together. We want you to know that this podcast wants to bring value to you, and we need value back from each and every one of those of you that are our producers, our listeners, those that are a part of the podcast on the other end of this digital connection. We want you to do just a few things for us.
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Speaker 1 00:01:31 <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:01:47 Super excited to have two of my very good friends that I've known for many years. Kyle means Jim Sternagel co-founders visional. They are fantastic operators. Great technicians, great operators. We're excited to have him here. We're talking media servers, we're talking high resolution, switching engineering, we're talking content creation. We're talking motion, tracking black tracks. They do all of this. They do it all very well guys. Thanks for being here today. Super excited to have you well introduction. Awesome. Well, we, I think the best place to start, you guys do so much. I mean, there's, there's like this huge umbrella that falls under high resolution media servers, motion tracking it all. It works together, but it all is very different. So let's talk real quick about your role, uh, as, as I don't even know, as an operator, let's say in crafting part of a show, being that part of a show, Kyle, Jim, I don't mind who goes first, but you know, what do you see as your role when you're brought into a project as crafting that event and what you do? Hmm. Uh, a big,
Speaker 2 00:03:00 A big part of what we do is, is retrofitting ideas to an existing design, right? So, so we, we get, typically we get called pretty far in, in, in the process, you know, there's already a stage of design there's already, uh, you know, uh, uh, a theme to it, to an event or a, or a meeting. And so what we ended up having to do is take that, uh, take that design, uh, take that existing design and, and retrofit it to work in a high rise or, you know, media sort of a format for sure. Um, uh, yeah,
Speaker 0 00:03:37 It's tough. Sometimes it's somebody says, Hey, here's the shoe, it's a size 10. You have to fit your size 12 foot.
Speaker 2 00:03:44 Exactly. We've gotten very, very good at fitting 10 pounds of potatoes and five pound sacks over the year.
Speaker 0 00:03:51 Very much so. Awesome. So Jim has a, as a high resolution operator, when you walk into a show, someone brings you in, how do you see your role, uh, within the V not just the video team, but the whole, the team as a whole, uh, as regards to the live events,
Speaker 2 00:04:06 When it, when it comes to high resolution specifically, and coming in as the, the, the operator kind of the tech, that's putting that all together frequently, you walk in and they just say, we have this over here, this over here, this over here. And we think it's going to do this. And, and you sort of, uh, reverse engineer it really quick. And now, ideally this is done well in advance, but of course, as we all know, oftentimes it isn't. So you do a little reverse engineering. You find out what the parts and pieces that they're going to want to see where when and how, and, uh, uh, you then take, make sure you take control of how it's being put together so that it will operate how you intend to operate it.
Speaker 0 00:04:52 Got it. So interpretation and then set expectations and then execute in, in that order normally. And especially when the client says, but the sales guy said, and then write whatever we follow.
Speaker 2 00:05:09 Yeah. So it's a lot like it's a lot like being an army Sergeant, right? Like you're, you're the, you're the head of the troops in the field, but you're taking orders from somebody who's not there. So you've gotta, you've gotta both take responsibility for it and interpret things, uh, interpret the directives in a way that you can actually make an app
Speaker 0 00:05:27 For sure. Um, grabbing a, you know, grabbing a project, taking it from somebody else. Uh, once you have that project in your hands, whether it's, you know, five days before the show or a hundred days before the show, um, Kyle, how are you managing a project from start to finish? Once someone comes to you and says, Hey, we are, we need AI server, AI, Ava lights server, by the way, for those of you that may not know, um, we need this server, we need this gear in here. How are you managing that project from start to finish?
Speaker 3 00:06:02 Well, um, Slack is a big part of that, right? So our, our team, our team uses Slack, uh, uh, on a daily basis, just like most people, most companies at this point, you Slack or a Slack alternative to manage projects. And so that's been really important in, in getting all of us on the same page. Um, but we, you know, we start by imagining, uh, what the final product is going to be and working the technical details backwards, right? So, you know, the, the size of a screen or the, the, uh, the size of the content might determine the type of server that we use, or the type of switcher that we use. Um, you know, we have where it's spider house and we're in Ava lights, um, server and console house. So we, we tend to think of things in those terms, but we've got spiders with different input and output capacities and spiders with different resolution capacities.
Speaker 3 00:06:55 We've got media servers with different output, capacities and capabilities. So, so we, you know, w we, we think inside those lines, but we also try to, uh, try to use the tool that's right. For the, for the job. Um, and then once we, once we get everything on paper, uh, which we use, uh, we typically use Vectorworks and OmniGraffle to do, um, you know, designs and sketches, uh, perfect flows. Once, once we get those things on paper, everything goes into Slack. Everybody watches the progress, uh, the, the, um, the project progress, um, uh, you know, whether they're the person responsible for it or not that way, once we're all on site, but at least our team knows what's up. Yeah. Oh, very cool. Okay.
Speaker 0 00:07:40 So then do you guys set up a, like each project has its own Slack page that all of the details, all of the information goes into. So regardless of Jim, Kyle, whoever's working on it beforehand, whoever picks up the Baton and goes on site, all those details are built in there.
Speaker 3 00:07:59 Yeah, exactly. And the beauty of that is, is when you bring, like, we, we use, we have a small, uh, salary team, but we use a lot of regular kind of, uh, kind of Lancer type guys, uh, on a regular basis. So when you add a person like that in to a Slack channel, when it's, you know, months into the process, they get all of that backstory. Uh, so it's, it's a really useful way to, uh, uh, to communicate like a project that's developed over a long time to somebody who's new to me.
Speaker 0 00:08:32 Okay. Fantastic. Are you, how much time do you find you, you spend managing expectations into a, in a project? I mean, is that the constant, like banging the drum every single day or
Speaker 4 00:08:48 Hit it, hit it on the head there? Yeah. Yeah. I think what a good project manager
Speaker 2 00:08:56 In my mind is is the, the joy and the word, no, uh, you know, like I just love telling clients no, coming up, I forgot a long time ago, you coming up with new ideas,
Speaker 0 00:09:09 Creative ways to not, you know, to not say no, but really say no all at the same time.
Speaker 2 00:09:15 Exactly. It's the, it's the, uh, the nuance to know, you know, the, yeah, well, we can't do that, but we can't do this, but we can cut to, we can totally do that, but w we need to add this, or we might need two more people on board now.
Speaker 0 00:09:28 Well, in that, so, so Jimmy bring up a good point there. When talking about equipment, how many times has somebody quoted, you know, a spider <inaudible> when it needed an xAd or something of that nature. And then you're looking at a project saying, well, now I'm stuck
Speaker 2 00:09:47 This fighter at all, or to, yeah,
Speaker 0 00:09:49 Exactly. You know, here's your two Emmy black magic, and we've got five blends and whatever else. So Jim Howard,
Speaker 2 00:09:57 I'd say that's pretty frequent, that's frequent. And, uh, but you get, you get sort of an expectation list when you're at the very beginning of the bid or just the, you know, information gathering. And they're telling you, we need this and this and this and this, but wait a minute. I know you, or I know people like you, when we get on site, are you going to also need a webcast is going to need to be separately. Cut. Are you also going to need, uh, you know, greenroom feeds separately cut, or do you need, are you going to need things, you know, go into overflow rooms, uh, a separate record, maybe of just camera cuts or, you know, all these, all these little details that a lot of people just think when they get onsite, they can just be like, Oh, make sure this is going. They're like, Oh, but that's not, what's going to screen. So it's something different. It's an entirely other, you know, set of a certain goal. Certain point high resolution engineering becomes like, uh, like plumbing, right? Like, you know, you're the guy with the router. Right. And, and, and we need these feeds and we need them to go there. And then suddenly you end up being like, uh, like a more flood plumber.
Speaker 0 00:11:07 I need four to eight. I need that. Oh, well now we need eight DSMs instead of four DSM fee.
Speaker 2 00:11:13 Yeah, exactly. And 4k completely complicated that because when it was all 3g STI, or, or even, you know, HDSD yeah. That all was very easy. 4k changes it into something else entirely, you know, we've got to, then, then we've suddenly got to deal with like breach of interest stuff and can't pipe it through a standard router.
Speaker 0 00:11:34 Got it. Okay. So how are you managing, uh, or managing client comes to, you says we're doing this and you realize, Oh crap. We don't have the gear. Um, what is your process for approaching them and saying, we need like, basically I need more, we've got to get more gear, more people. I mean, do you just come right out? Boom, this is gonna, this isn't going to work or is there, you know, what's the thought process and how do you navigate that relationship? Because it is tenuous. I mean, it's a tough one. When people realized either a, they didn't have the right gear, they weren't quoted the right thing. I mean, there's a lot of emotion tied up with that.
Speaker 3 00:12:15 Go ahead. I'm going to let you start. I'm going to step away and get somebody in the math class. I'll be right back. All right, cool. Yeah. Uh, it can get a little nuance, right? I mean, and it all depends on what point you are in the process and, and where you are on the, the food chain. Right. Because if it's, if it's, if it's our project and we've been involved for a long time, then when something wasn't quoted right. Or something, isn't there on site, then that's, that's our fault because we, we should've performed that discovery. And, you know, so that doesn't happen very often because we're, we're, we try to be really thorough with our discovery process. But if it's somebody else's project and we're third or fourth down the line from the end user, then it's a completely different discussion. Right. So we fall on the side of, uh, we try to always be, um, uh, as friendly to the end result as possible.
Speaker 3 00:13:13 Uh, so we try not to create drama, uh, if we can avoid it. Uh, and we, we tend to fall on the side of, uh, less get the gear and let's make the end result happen and then work out the details, um, after the fact. So, um, and you know, and th the nice thing about the types of equipment that we deal in is it is very scalable. So if we need another server output outputs, it's pretty easy to just add a box or change box or whatever. Uh, and, and add that output. It's, it's not, it's not the end of the world. I mean, just like any other, just like a spider and media servers, they all have layer, um, limitations. They haven't dealt with limitations, but we're, we're lucky in that we're, we're, you know, we have a good amount of gear on all of those fronts, so it's pretty easy to expand if we need to.
Speaker 0 00:14:08 Yeah. Have you ever been, so now let's go back, let's look at it from the other side, have you ever been in a situation where everything was quoted, you had all the stuff you had, all the gear, suddenly you get into the, you have the people specked and ready, and then you get into a project and suddenly you realize, not only do I not have the gear that I need, but the person that I selected for this particular project is not the right fit. Um, how do you, what do you know, how do you navigate on the other side of that?
Speaker 3 00:14:38 Yeah. I mean, we work with some really high end people, but that's less of an issue I would say. Yeah. Great. Um, now a more common issue is we don't have enough to do the function that is, that is required. Like we need a separate camera director, the spider op can also direct the cameras, that kind of thing. Yes. There a second black tracks, but yes,
Speaker 0 00:15:03 They can. There's only two cameras.
Speaker 3 00:15:05 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we've gone, we've gone different directions with that. I mean, we've both done plenty of shows where we're, we're also cutting cameras on the side while cutting spider, and it's not fun. Sometimes you just have to do it if you get to that point. And, and that's the situation you find yourself in, but that's the point of good discovery conversations is to try to assess those things out before you're onsite.
Speaker 0 00:15:28 Yeah. Discovery. It's the, it's the theme, you know, as I've been doing a lot of these, everything comes down to talking beforehand, communicating as, as early in the process as possible. Um,
Speaker 3 00:15:41 If you've got to show that you're willing to let something fall apart, then, you know, by all means like, let's cut corners over this conversation. We can phone it in, but it's going to look fun
Speaker 0 00:15:55 And they will a hundred percent. Um, but, and we all hate phoned in shows too. I mean, we put in extra work that, that at no cost to the end client, to make sure that these things like that they happen. Um,
Speaker 3 00:16:09 So I think that's what makes an effective, an effective partner when it comes to media servers and high-rises engineering is we know which corners we can cut. Yeah. Audience won't notice and right. And, you know, and corners have to be cut on every single show. It's just about knowing which ones, you know, are going to actually have an effect on the audience perception, which ones are
Speaker 0 00:16:30 A hundred percent. Um, darn. I had a really good question. And now I forgot it. So we're going to move
Speaker 3 00:16:37 To the next one, um,
Speaker 0 00:16:39 Looking at, um, your software solution. So you mentioned Slack, you mentioned Vectorworks OmniGraffle um, are there other pieces of software that you guys are using to help stay organized? Keep Pat keep things on track, keep, you know, keep the ball moving down the road.
Speaker 3 00:16:57 I think just some of your standard business tools, you know, G drive and, um, things that we can all access. I mean, we're obviously also always on the phone texting, like, and, and then emailing a lot, uh, obviously you're keeping in touch with clients through email and, um, so I don't think we're opposed to using anything. Yeah. It's whatever works for the job, keeping ourselves organized. We try, we pretty much stick to those, those common. Nice. Yeah. That's great. We do use, we do use current RMS, which I think a lot of the industry uses at this point to, to, uh, to manage, you know, gear and quotes and, and labor allocations and stuff like that. Yeah. Which a lot of those systems out there luckily made it past the days of, of, you know, putting your invoice in through Excel and whatever. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:17:51 I mean, in the beginning, we, we managed a hundred percent of our gear and labor for just calendars. Yeah. And, uh, that, that gets pretty, it got big pretty quick. Yeah. When you've got 20 calendars and you're checking and unchecking them. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:18:06 Been there, been there, done that, you know, it's like Excel spreadsheets of like, where's the gear. And then you've got all your color cells and you're like, Oh wait, Oh crap. That, that I missed that cell. Cause I didn't see it was off the page. And now, you know, I'm getting myself in trouble. Um,
Speaker 2 00:18:22 Anybody who's ever broken a formula in Excel and then had it like come back to bite you later on, knows that that's just not the way to do
Speaker 0 00:18:31 A hundred percent. I mean, that's inventory management is huge and not just inventory management, people management, um, taking care of, of all of that. So you're, you have to people you're managing a project, you get on site. Um, talk about your process once you get on show site. I mean, even from the, the, the, when you arrive, you know, let's say you have a travel day the day before, uh, talk through that process. What does that look like for you from start to finish, regardless of the length of the project,
Speaker 2 00:19:05 As far as drinking <inaudible> from, as soon as I get on the airplane. Yeah. That's uh, but getting to the air, getting to the airport, uh, I, I find that that evening before, or that morning before to be probably the most stressful time of the entire project, even when it's a stress filled project, um, making sure and rechecking what I'm bringing with me, my, uh, you know, my work box and do I have all the right parts and pieces for this job? Cause I have a lot of common things I'll bring to every job, but then some of them require other things and I do have enough underwear. Did I remember socks? You know, what, what are, you know, what, what kind of days are we looking at? Are we going to be sitting in a room for 17 hours? Do I need to go to the store and buy a bunch of healthy snacks? Because I'm only going to be fed, you know, arena catering the whole time. Like those, those seemingly insignificant questions become a very big deal. I think. Um,
Speaker 0 00:20:07 Do I have my third sweater that I'm going to need? Because they, they keep it at meat locker, temperature, backstage.
Speaker 2 00:20:13 Yeah, exactly. Degrees outside, but you need a, you need a winter coat backstage. Yeah. Gosh.
Speaker 0 00:20:20 So what do you th so Jim, that you bring up a great point. What are you traveled with? What are the things you're traveling with regularly?
Speaker 2 00:20:26 You know, I carry, um, boxes of rocks and I just make people lift them everywhere I go. Um, it feels like at sometimes, you know, I've got, uh, a couple of pelicans and upbringing. One, one will have generally speaking, two laptops in it and then an assortment of hard drives and connectors and, and other basic travel stuff, you know, extra credit cards or whatnot. And, and then the big box of tools, you know, you got the things that you always bring. I'm always bringing up a little spider controller of some sort with me, or, you know, something to, uh, to have extra keys around you, uh, or, you know, screwdriver, Oh, you gotta have a screwdriver, a knife, don't forget a knife. Um, and don't bring it on the plane as my daughter has tried. And they got her, you know, she's learning though. She's learning. Totally. And let her don't let her tell you. I don't tell her. I told you that. Yeah. I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 0 00:21:26 You, what do you, what are you traveling with these days? Are you like super light or are you carrying boxes of rocks as well?
Speaker 2 00:21:32 No, we, we, we got boxes around. We don't travel light. I wish, I wish we could. That would be a beautiful thing. I mean, it's nice when you can. It's nice when you can ship it ahead of time. Of course. Yeah. And at this point we've got, we've got enough applicants that we can, we can do that sometimes most of the time, we're just, you know, we're logging it. Uh, I mean, Jim, Jim mentioned the spider controller. I think the stream deck totally changed. How all of us get, get things done between the stream deck as that little extra. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, you know, days of having big controllers are, are behind us at this point. Uh, thankfully. Yeah. So, um, so that's been really nice.
Speaker 0 00:22:15 I mean, you don't carry a montage in a Pelican.
Speaker 2 00:22:19 No, no, no, no, no, no. Luckily we never had to buy a montage and I'm really happy about that. I mean, it's PO box don't know one key item I found on, especially the, the larger convention center shows as I've got a, a scooter that I throw in a Pelican, like in a rifle, Pelican folds up, bring that. And suddenly that hour for lunch where you have to walk a half hour to go get food, I can actually go do it zip over zip back. And it's pretty low. It's a wonderful thing. Have you been getting yelled at, you know, I, uh, you find your way around that though, you know, like, okay, we'll just, you head out your back door, go to the dock and write down the dock and go out and, you know, go right out front. Right. Or it's a free world out front, you know, like you can't do anything to me out here, but tea selection is really important too. Like having enough, having enough, like mentee and your work so that you can make a little tea every now.
Speaker 0 00:23:17 So that leads me into the next question. What are three things? So for both of you, three things, three things that you have to have to do. Every show they can be, it doesn't matter. I mean, it's like earlier today it was Dr. Pepper and Swedish fish. I mean, that was like, you know, but like what are those three things that you have to have for every show? Jim,
Speaker 2 00:23:38 I'm going to steal that first one right there T I, I, I'm a tea snob. I don't drink coffee when I'm working. Um, and especially not crappy coffee. Um, uh, so I bring a lot of tea. Yep. A good selection. Yeah.
Speaker 5 00:23:55 Copy of that. Two more. You got two more there, buddy. Come on. I got you.
Speaker 2 00:23:58 I'm going. Okay. Second thing I bring is I definitely bring a clean, a water bottle for myself. That's uh, and as soon as I get on site, I will go and hunt down where to find clean, filtered water, because you can always find it somewhere, almost always, and maybe back a few halls or whatever. I always try to keep that clean water filled and drink water while I'm working, you know, a hundred percent. Um, yeah, let's see what would be a good third? Hmm. Um, an iPad for watching movies on the plane and, uh, and catching up with some reading and like, that's that's, that was, that used to be before the, uh, the co Boyd's or COVID or, you know, whatever, um, Covidien will say the Covidien, uh, before that, that was when I cut up on the shows on the airplane, you know? Got it.
Speaker 5 00:24:56 Okay. Kyle, what about you buddy? Three things.
Speaker 3 00:24:58 Uh, so, so I'm gonna repeat my previous answer, but stream deck is absolutely number one, uh, framed up with companion and, and, and, you know, that's because the, the myriad of devices that you can control from that thing, uh, when those two pieces of software combined is, is really, really important. When you get into a situation where there's not a third graphics off, and you need somebody to cue that background is fine. Being able to do that remotely and build it in is, is massive. Um, uh, the other thing is, uh, we have enabled lights, uh, T2 dongle, which is a two output DMX, uh, an artnet, uh, console in a box, pretty much, um, little, little guy about this big with two DMX outputs. And that, that allows me to, to bridge anything artnet into what I'm controlling. So, um, wow. And that'll actually work with stream deck.
Speaker 3 00:25:54 So if you've got a, if you've got a TCP command that you need to send at this point, if you only got an arc net controller, you can, you can actually, uh, add companion as an art net device to the able lights, uh, tighten and away you go. So, so those, those three integration tools, uh, companion stream deck, and, and tighten together, allow us to do a lot of really crazy things. Um, when we're, when our backs were against a wall, uh, the personal item that I require on every show is a clean black hoodie, uh, because it gets cold backstage. And, uh, and, uh, and I emphasize clean because if you've ever had to sit 16 hours in a sneaky hoodie, it's, it's a bad,
Speaker 2 00:26:44 I have to make the choice between sticky or cold.
Speaker 5 00:26:47 Copy that. And you'd take, what do you rather take stinky? Or would you rather take cold? I'll take it.
Speaker 2 00:26:54 Oh yeah. It's still there. Yeah. Gear wise gear was, uh, yeah. I, I, I generally generally speaking, uh, sorry. Uh, baby mama. Colin. No, we're in a moment though. Yeah,
Speaker 5 00:27:09 It's all good, dude. We're here. I got great questions for Kyle. Um, like how does he keep his hair looking so good? Even through the quarantine and
Speaker 2 00:27:18 Yay. Got to answer those though. Three months of quarantine here, right here, right?
Speaker 5 00:27:27 Yeah. My question was only, you know, you don't need it. It's okay. Don't feel compelled to explain why it's like, Oh, no three butts, like hide the hair. I get it. Um, Oh dude, Shave it off, dude. Did you just like buzz it?
Speaker 2 00:27:43 Yeah, basically I let my daughter cut it first.
Speaker 6 00:27:47 That's awesome.
Speaker 2 00:27:49 And then, uh, and then here's what did the rest we should cut in video of Annaliese cutting gyms here. Oh, absolutely. Man. I need to get that video from you by the way. Like yeah. Um, yeah, Dropbox, Dropbox. That, to me,
Speaker 5 00:28:04 That's awesome. The, uh, freelancing, the freelance lifestyle is wonderful. I think we all agree that we, we enjoy it most of the time, except for right now. Um, and it creates some freedom, some opportunity, you know, you don't necessarily feel as tied down per se, but I mean, how do you find work as a freelancer, whether you're a seasoned, whether you're just starting out, what do you, what is, what is the process you go through or how do you find work as a freelancer? I'll let both of you guys kind of take a crack at it.
Speaker 2 00:28:44 I'm going to, I'm going to skip slightly ahead and then back up here. Yeah. I'll say one of the things that we've found, and I think most people find in general, um, when you've got somebody that you're working with working for, uh, and you run into other people and you try to, you need to maintain the relationships you have and keep them, keep them good. Keep them honest. Like, and Jordan, we've been working with you and we all kind of know that situation very well, but let's take, now let's pull that back and you're coming into things, not knowing anybody. This is, uh, it's important to me. I don't know people like us, I guess I just get your name out there and let them know, let us know. You're willing to learn really. Like don't, don't come into it saying, you know what you're doing? Say, I want to know what your, I want to help and can I help? And yeah, and I mean, if, if I don't know something and I'm with somebody and they've got a truck and I've never seen this truck or whatever, I, you ask questions so that you don't do things twice or wrong, you know? Um, and, uh, get all that, all the information you can. And there's a, there's a certain point where just a willingness and an eagerness trumps ability at a certain level, you know, um, uh, you know, I sort of,
Speaker 0 00:30:07 No, it makes perfect sense. I mean, and you're right to a, to a point and that willingness will get you. It's like, it gets you to here, but then willingness again will only take you so far,
Speaker 2 00:30:18 But then you, then you're making these contacts and, uh, when you're making those contacts, they will remember you. And when they hear, when somebody else brings you up, brings up your name, they'll say, Oh yeah, I know that guy. Yeah. He's good. Yeah. Bring them in.
Speaker 0 00:30:32 Got it. Huge amount of here. Oldie required
Speaker 2 00:30:34 Forever and anybody. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 0 00:30:37 Very cool. Kyle, what, uh, what's your process like?
Speaker 3 00:30:42 Well, so, you know, Jim and I were freelancers when we met and, and my, my, uh, uh, golden rule of freelancing back when I was a solo freelancer was, was number one, be nice. Number two, uh, do good work. And if you follow those rules on any show, regardless of where you're at, you're going to be just fine. Uh, so Jim and I met and jelled really well because we both were abiding by those rules. Previously, we came into the job we met on with those two rules, and we kind of identified that at each other. Yeah. At this point, I, I don't feel like a freelancer. I feel like a, a member of a, uh, of a, a really good team. And I think, you know, that's what makes, what visional offers different from, um, from the average high-rise freelancer or the average high Rez media server designer, you know, content creator, all the, all the services we provide, the reason you would call us is because we have that team already in place.
Speaker 3 00:31:48 And, and you're not gonna, you're not walking in with a crew of people that come from, uh, from, from different parts of the country, in different backgrounds and different, you know, don't know each other like that. You get some of that gel on your crew already just by working with us because we, because we couldn't provide people and gear and a team that has done many, many shows together and are willing to have that level of humility and be part of a crew. You know, we've always said we wear anybody's shirt, you know, the partnership is key. Um, so yeah, that's, that's, that's sort of my philosophy on this.
Speaker 0 00:32:26 So the, I mean, you're pooling the expertise, put it in all in one place, and then people don't just have access to that one person's brain. They now have access to two, three, four people, five people,
Speaker 2 00:32:41 You get the team for the price at one, if, uh, we, we, we can, we can run scenarios in the background and, and ask each other questions and then one person can deliver that answer or that, that final product, uh, yeah, sure. That works great. It helps on the, on the, on the internal support side, you know, let's say you've only got one of us on a show. Well, well, we've got 10 people on our Slack who are experts in their, their specific niches. So if I get in a jam, which, you know, happens, then I can reach out to my team first, solve it internally. And then we don't ever have to get into a big, you know, Facebook support situation when we talk to each other a lot. Yeah. We're always on each other's jobs, basically. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:33:30 That's great. I mean, you have the ability to reach out, find people, talk with people. I mean, and that's really what we're doing here. It's like we're working, we're, we're figuring out how to do things better by gaining information from other people and whether it's Slack, whether it's text, whether it's phone calls. Um, I remember the question from earlier that I was going to ask and it kind of, it can fall into this world is, so Jim had mentioned using text message, phone calls, emails, all of those things end up in these days coming into a show. I mean, you get your client text messaging, you at 1130 at night saying, Oh, I was in bed laying there. And I thought about this thing. And if we could make this guy fly in from the rooftop because of this thing, and he dove in and lands in a swimming pool in the middle of the stage, that'd be a major
Speaker 2 00:34:14 Cycle. Exactly.
Speaker 0 00:34:17 But how, um, what do you guys do to like when somebody texts you and you need that information to go back, how do you guys incorporate that you do like a copy and paste into Slack? Do you like, what do you do to kind of make sure that's all cohesive and you don't miss those things? Cause I've been that guy where it's like, I forget to do that. And then suddenly I'm typing through my email trying to find email. And I'm like, I know we talked about this and it turned out it was a text message. Um,
Speaker 2 00:34:45 I think it's situational really dependent on how, uh, what, what exactly was stated and if it needs to really go into our job or was it just something that was going to be a conversation between you and said producer or something? Yeah. Um, uh, it's so situational it, if it's something that needs to build itself into our jobs, it'll end up in the quote in Slack. If it's something that's a conversation is being had, maybe it just requires a conversation in person before anything is done. Like, don't, don't get too crazy just yet. Like, don't change the world. Um, it's, by the time I get downstairs to the ballroom, uh, that their minds could have been changed, you know, kind of thing. Um, yeah. For, for our, for our purposes, I think Slack is the document of record. Yeah. You know, if, if there's something important that the team needs know our team and it needs to go into Slack and if, and if it doesn't then you know, then that can cause issues down the line. I'm a naturally forgetful person. Uh, Jim can attest to that.
Speaker 2 00:35:51 So I learned a long time ago if I don't, if I don't write something down, if I don't put it in Slack, if I don't put it in the calendar, then I'm more than likely going to forget. So I'll, I'll add that. Yeah. To take, take lots of notes. You know, I always take notes when somebody is telling you something, you know, you're going to remember it, right. Because it's easy. It's like, Oh yeah, this is that show. I wrote that. It's so obvious. I'll remember this conversation forever. Tomorrow. I'm going to have another conversation with somebody else about another show. And by the next day, after that, these will all will have blended together. Like, yeah, that's another area where Slack is really helpful because if you've got a, if you've got a, you know, show 2019 channel, and then that show repeats the next year, and you've got to show 2020 channel, you can refer back to the conversation that you had a year ago and look for the issues that you had and then have those conversations with your client that, that didn't come up. You know? So, so the historical information becomes this, uh, this, um, uh, building trove of, of information that makes the show better and better each year. And that's a value add that, you know, that you can provide your end income.
Speaker 5 00:36:59 That's actually a great lead into a question I just thought of is how do you guys take from, okay, 29 teen show, 2020 show. Um, what do you guys do as like a post, you know, post event assessment? You know, a lot of people don't do anything and they'll just be like, Oh, it was a great show. You know, what are you guys,
Speaker 2 00:37:21 Dude? I thought about that. I thought about that a little bit here. Uh, so the immediate post show, if you get good show from, you know, set client, that is that that may be all you ever get. And that's a wonderful thing to get now internally, or like production team's side. That's, that's another story you go back. And Kyle and I have done this many times, we, we go into it's like, all right, we can never do that again. I can notes, you know, like it's like, um, that, you know, like w whenever we do this, we need to, we need to be more forceful, upfront about, you know, how this needs to run or things like that. But, um, I don't, I don't know that there's necessarily a standard practice or an SOP on this just yet. Um, a lot of our jobs are repeat business and, um, you go into it with an expectation and you leave exceeding those expectations.
Speaker 2 00:38:19 And, uh, so there's not a whole lot, really to backtrack on. Uh, it's, it's a lot of the new experiences or new things that we are, you know, we also have a lot of jobs, whereas this has never been done before. So yeah. Coming out of those, it is a lot like, let's check our notes. What did we, what could have we done better? You know, and we know that now, awesome. Each show informs the next. Yeah. Whether it's, whether it's a repeat gig or whether it's, you know, uh, this black tracks implementation is going to change the way we do the next black tracks implementation, that's completely different, but learn as you go. And I think it really goes, it all goes back to that level of humility that you have to have where every single day you're learning, even if it's you're, even if you're learning something about something you've done for 20 years, you're still learning as you go. Yeah.
Speaker 5 00:39:09 Yeah. Humility is huge. I've, I'm, you know, I've found that I like to work with gentlemen, such as yourself who understand the fact that they don't know everything and that there is always the capability to learn more. You know, we've all worked with the guys that are like, Oh, I know the stuff, man. You can't, you can't tell me what to do. You can't tell me that next thing. Um, and inevitably, those are the people that I don't want to work with. I mean, humility is, is huge. I love that. Um, so from a humility standpoint, what's the toughest job that you've ever done. Hardest job. Like you're like, I am never doing that ever, ever again.
Speaker 2 00:39:57 Well, okay. Those are probably two different questions. Oh, all right. Okay. There we go. I mean, I th I mean, toughest job you've ever done, maybe one I w I would do over and over, but just not back to back, you know, cause they tend to high risk, high reward kind of situations. Totally. A hundred percent jobs I never want to do ever again, uh, like setting up a, uh, a giant warehouse on a pier, the length of a pier full of drape. That's not what I'm particularly fond of or want to go back and do again. Um,
Speaker 5 00:40:27 Well then let's talk, let's talk about the toughest. Even if you wanted to do it again, toughest job you've ever done.
Speaker 2 00:40:36 You know, sometimes location is everything. I think one of the, one of the toughest has been for a, uh, an unnamed client here. Um, but it was out in the middle of nowhere and you need to get, you need to make sure you have everything there that you could possibly need for a show that you also know is going to be, um, modern Marvel of technology, you know, launching a rocket or whatever, you know, um, those are, those are the, also some of the ones I enjoy the most or when the, when you're dealing with say customs or things like that. And you've just got to have every nut and bolt accounted for well in advance. Um, that those are always fun.
Speaker 5 00:41:18 So just international shows in general when you're bringing your own hair.
Speaker 2 00:41:22 Okay. Yeah. Those were two separate to like the middle of nowhere shows in the U S you also, like, if you're, if something goes bad, you're not gonna find it like within a day, you know? Uh, there's no airports around there's no, yeah,
Speaker 3 00:41:34 I got it. Bears and everything. What about, what about you Kyle toughest show you've ever done? Well, I'll tell you about the, the very first Ave experience I ever had, uh, 20, 23 right out of college. And I got a, I got a job at, uh, uh, a hotel AB provider. And, uh, I literally walked in the first day I was hired because there was a big show. It was a small town. I grew up in Chattanooga, near Chattanooga, Tennessee. Okay. And, uh, and so it was one of these things where this hotel ID office had, you know, done a million, uh, slide projectors in board rooms. And then they got their very first big show. And so they got money to staff up. So they hired me and I walked in the first day and they literally said, okay, here's how you put up drape.
Speaker 3 00:42:22 Now put up 150 feet of this brand, new black drapes, still in the packages. So I went home after, uh, after, uh, you know, 12, 13, 14 hour days, something like that literally covered in Valore like Bullard dust, shaved chased in every part you can imagine being changed and, and exhausted while wearing a suit and tie the whole time. Cause it was hotel AAV in the, in the two thousands. So I remember I was living with my parents at the time, right out of college. So I went home and saw my dad and he said, you're quitting that job.
Speaker 3 00:43:00 And the fact that I'm still doing, uh, HIV more or less, you know, here 20 years later, I think speaks to a certain kind of mentality that those of us in the business have, you know, we're, we're, we're doers, we're, we're, you know, we're the type of people who stick through it, a tough job. So that was, that was the job I never want to do again, toughest job. I, you know, we did a, we did an event last year where, um, where we were providing media servers and blank tracks and whatnot, and the, uh, the show team had hired a resolume guy who did the entire show in resolume ahead of time, and then expected me as the AILITEs media server to recreate his show on the day of the show. So it was one of those where we load in at 6:00 AM. And then I had from like noon to like five to receive all the assets and duplicate his entire resolume show in AI. That was not fun. I never, ever, ever, ever.
Speaker 2 00:44:09 That was one of those shows where we realized a, a, an important point of, of having enough people for the job when they, when they put a, a little, a little bit more at notice on what was exactly going to be happening would have been nice. Got it. Yeah. Wow. All these things being said set up drape, like don't not set up the drape and we all have had to do it. You, um,
Speaker 3 00:44:32 And, and we all still have to do it once in a while now. It's like, you need a green room up, but right now, this second who's got hands, you know? And, uh, I'm not as close to hazing as you can get in this. Exactly. Instead of that drain. Yeah.
Speaker 5 00:44:51 Bring them in guys. We're draping off this entire room. It's a hundred by 80 and we needed on three sides go one hour. And we're, you know, I mean, but that, you know, the team atmosphere onsite being a part. I mean, that's one of the things that I love about what we do, uh, very, very rarely do I run into someone who doesn't want to be a part of a team. You know, they, they don't, they want to be an individual out doing their thing. You know, I know a couple of operators who are that way. They're this is my world. I do this. I don't do anything else. This spigot right here, this BNC, as soon as the, the data hits this thing, my responsibility is done and it's everybody else's. Um, but being a part of a team is huge in this day and age, being able to work with people because I mean, it takes a village. I mean, you know, you got five people at front of house, eight people backstage, you got people moving gear, onstage off stage, um, you know, working within all this stuff. What do you guys like the most about being a part of that team, being the high resolution operator, the media server operator, the black Trex operator, like what do you like the most about all of that? Everything that you guys do,
Speaker 3 00:46:04 I'll, I'll start at, you know, the thing that has the thing that, that I have grown to really love about the space that we occupy in the market and the way we do things is the opportunity for mentorship. Uh, you know, we come in contact with so many young, uh, people that are, that are like, that have the right, um, uh, that have the right. What's the word I'm looking for, uh, uh, tone, not tone, um, mindset, mindset. There you go. They have the right mindset. They have the, the, uh, the desire to learn, but they might not have the access to the gear. They might not have the access to training. They might live in a part of the country where, uh, where there's not a footprint of baby companies, so they don't know how to get started and running into those people has been really gratifying for us, uh, or for me personally, um, you know, getting them into the system, like giving them opportunities to learn, uh, and then seeing the way that they go with that. I mean, a lot of, I think a lot of the reason we started visionable, uh, was to solve the freelance problem where you have, you know, this, uh, this industry of mercenaries, um, that, that don't belong to a team they're they're individuals. And so they don't have the, they don't have the, um, the resource of team learning. Um, so we wanted to bring some of that, you know, more, uh, process to an industry that's run pretty much by solo, uh, uh, sole proprietors, you know, and so operators.
Speaker 5 00:47:39 That's awesome. Jim, what about you?
Speaker 2 00:47:42 I would add to that. I would, I would agree with that. And then add to that, uh, the, the family vibe you get with the people that maybe aren't in your roles, uh, you know, you know, you've got your producers are stage managers and, or, you know, uh, audio guys, people, uh, you know, they're, they come in and you see them regularly over the years. And it becomes a really large extended family. And, uh, uh, but it's, there's nothing quite like it, you know, to walk in and it's a reunion kind of, and everybody's already working well together before he even stepped foot. You know, like we know, we know, you know, you can come to me if you have a problem with this thing that I'm not responsible for, but I remember that time we did it. How did we get that to work or whatever, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a good thing. It is. I love it. It's
Speaker 3 00:48:32 Probably, what's, that's probably, what's been so hard for the industry over the last few months, going through this, this lockdown is the, you know, the loss of that family that you see on a regular basis. And, um, that comradery, you know, everybody else can work from home. And they're just, you know, if you're an accountant, you're part of an accounting team. Now you're working from home and you're zooming in and you're talking, you still get that level of camaraderie, but you know, how do you work from home as a freelancer in the industry you don't. Yeah. You know, so I think that's been tough for people to adjust to.
Speaker 5 00:49:10 Yeah, I agree. I mean, man, we're, we're, we're human beings. We're we're, we are personal people. We want that interaction with other people, for sure. Um, for people that want to get, well, let me go back. What do you like least about what you do? What's your least, what's the least favorite thing.
Speaker 2 00:49:30 Oh, I can, I can answer that easily. Uh, not seeing my daughter for weeks at a time sometimes it's that became the least favorite, you know, once when she was around. Um, but, uh, yeah, that's, that's an easy, like, easy win on that.
Speaker 5 00:49:48 A hundred percent tile.
Speaker 3 00:49:53 Oh, wow.
Speaker 5 00:49:53 You can't say nothing. I don't like, I like everything about what we do.
Speaker 2 00:49:58 Oh, dude. Getting up, getting sick in old convention centers. Oh, that is just Ugh, black death. Yeah.
Speaker 3 00:50:10 Well, I'll tell you, I, you know, I wouldn't have said before the, uh, before the coronavirus locked down, I would not have said that it was the traveler being away from home, but I think I've discovered, uh, uh, a new, uh, appreciation for being home, uh, over the last three. Uh, so, so going back to the level of travel that we were doing, uh, before the virus hit, I think will be a lot more difficult than it was. Um, I would agree. Yeah. Yeah. You know, that said that, you know, it's evolving and what the industry looks like after this is going to be very different. So we might have, we're going to have a different set of problems. Yeah. Um, what I like least is probably, uh, probably working with people that, that don't fit the characteristics that we've been describing over the last, um, 45 minutes or so, you know, is amazing.
Speaker 3 00:51:08 You run into so many stones. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, the reality is like th there is far more demand in our industry than there is supply. And, and that's why, you know, um, that's why there are folks that, uh, are, are, are that we come in contact with that, that probably wouldn't get a lot of work if it wasn't for the level of, of supply that exists or the level of demand that exists out there. And, um, I wished that, uh, my wish for the future is that we can continue to grow the family team atmosphere that, that we've been working towards, and that we can work with those people a little less. They make the job a lot harder than it needs to be. Yeah,
Speaker 5 00:51:54 I do. I mean, we, we can call it like it is. I mean, there are people that just, they're only here. Um, they're only here because they have nowhere else to go and they don't want to make a change, you know, and they just get grumpy and they get frustrated and age doesn't matter in that case. Right. Or they just don't want to work. I mean, you know, I run into young and old that it's like every single, every single thing you ask them, it's a slog. It's like, Oh, I gotta go do that thing now. Oh, I gotta go do that mean, and I look at it and be like, if you don't want to be here, go home, I'll work with one less person on this crew and get the job done and not have to listen to your grown and belly ache. And, you know, I did a job last year where we were setting up drape. Uh, there we go. We were setting up drain
Speaker 3 00:52:42 Things, come back to drapes. Yeah.
Speaker 5 00:52:44 And we were setting it up around the screen and I grabbed some guys that were not doing anything. I said, Hey guys, come on over here. We're going to set up the strip. And like the first thing out of this guy's mouth was like, Whoa, we have to set up drip that scenic guy's job, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, and I turned right to him. I was like, dude, if you don't want to do it, you can leave. There's the dorm, like really, truly, you know, I have no problem calling people out like that because it just, it it's going to weed out those that don't want to be here. Like if you don't want to be here, find somewhere else to be. Um,
Speaker 3 00:53:12 Well that, that negative energy, uh, is far more damaging to a show than, than not having the right piece of gear or not having the right number of people. If you even have one on the crew that that is, uh, that is draining the, the positive positivity of a crew, it can be really, really damaging a hundred percent, you know, we've all seen it. We had a guy, uh, I, you know, who shall remain nameless, uh, that we nicknamed speedbump years ago, because just his existence on the crew made everything 10 times slower. Uh, you know, and the thing is like, if, if you're listening to this and you're thinking, you know, I don't know those people, then you might need those people. It's important. I think for us all to have a level of self-reflection, if we wanna, if we wanna, if your nickname has the word speedy in it, it's probably ingest
Speaker 5 00:54:15 Self-awareness, um, a critical, a critical skill that is learned. Um, I've had to learn it. And honestly, I still feel like I'm pretty terrible at it sometimes. So like, I get it. Um,
Speaker 3 00:54:28 Why don't we do we get trapped in our own little bubble sometimes that's for sure.
Speaker 5 00:54:32 A hundred percent. Um, if I want to become, you know, I want to be a high rise guy now, of course, in my case, when I wanted to become a high rise guy, Jim was kind enough to take time, introduce me to a spider X 20, you know, and then three weeks later shoved me out the door on a show with a bunch of blends and a bunch of other stuff. But, um, you know, if I wanted to be I'm listening, I'm saying, Hey, I
Speaker 3 00:54:55 Wouldn't have done it if we didn't think he could. Yeah,
Speaker 5 00:54:57 No, I appreciate it. I really do. It was super fun. Five, 18 hour days in a row or whatever the heck it was, it was such a great show. Um, the, I want to be a high resolution operator. I want to work with media servers. Like what, what can I be doing now that can prepare me for that? Even if it might be a year in, in the future, what can I be doing now, uh, physically, mentally to be, to start working my way in that direction?
Speaker 3 00:55:28 Well, I, I would say the number one thing is reach out, right? Uh, expand your network. Um, because even if, I mean, we'd love for it to be us, but even if it's not us, you know, typically you're gonna find that, that people are really inviting, uh, looking to, to spread the, um, to spread the net, uh, and, and allow people in. I mean, we're, we're, you know, there's two times two, two mindsets of all of the really high-end guys. There's the people who really want to protect their information and keep it from getting out for fear of losing work. And then there's the type that are free with information and, and, uh, you know, free with training and, and that's, that's where we lie on that. So yeah, I would say networking is the most important thing. Uh, you know, there's a lot of training resources that are out there that are free right now. So, uh, you know, and we've got, we've all got a lot of time on our hands, so there's no reason to be training,
Speaker 2 00:56:24 But the, but the most important thing is getting on a show site with a team that does it well. And if, if you reach out, if you network, you'll find those opportunities, they'll come to you.
Speaker 5 00:56:35 Got it. Yeah. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 00:56:37 I think the same thing, and really, I would just add like honing some of the, some of the regular skills that you're going to need, whether, whether, you know, it or not, like just, you know, figuring out pixel spaces and counts and, and doing math on the flag quickly, uh, with those types of things and knowing how to get to, to the numbers you need to know, uh, whether, you know, it, it projection lens numbers, or, you know, these, these sorts of things. Um, it's good to just be aware of them and, and, and kind of drill those things a little bit, uh, like just different scenarios I would think. And, or, or, or see what is up there and figure out how did they come up with those, those numbers? Like, why am I sending, uh, you know, the, the led processors w this signal instead of that, and or how am I, how are we getting all of these things broken up into these different, different areas? Um, I dunno, I, I find that, that, you know, the numbers part of it, it's fun to figure those things out, you know, and it's really wonderful when you just yell over to the led processor guy, like, yeah, you're starting at five 67 or whatever, and, and, and they just punched out numbers in, and all of a sudden flip things fall right into place. It's like, all right, cool.
Speaker 5 00:57:57 Yeah. It's like, I did math correctly today. Woo.
Speaker 2 00:57:59 I know
Speaker 5 00:58:03 What are, uh, the last question I always ask, everybody that I talked to is what are two things? So right now we've been at people haven't been gigging for a little while, for the most part. Uh, we don't know when the next gig is going to be, but whether they're listening to this today or next year, what are two things that they can be doing to be more gig ready, ready for that next gig? Whenever it tends to be from the one that they just did till the next one, Jim, I'll let you, if you're, if you think of something, I'll let you go first.
Speaker 2 00:58:33 I can't like stress important. It's very important that when you do get some information, you really go over it and think about what's wrong with it, or what what's right about it. Uh, so that you're not seeing it for the first time when you're on site, if you can help it, um, uh, think about the, how that, that flow is going to work and what, what are you going to be doing and ask questions, you know, if you are getting a job godless, what the job is return, like, ask questions about it. If you're hanging speakers, what kind of speakers are they going to? You know, are we, you know, using motors? Are we gonna dead hang these things? Or do we have the, you know, if you're, yeah. I think just thinking about things before get to them is invaluable. Yeah.
Speaker 5 00:59:24 Awesome Kyle.
Speaker 3 00:59:26 Well, I, you know, especially right now, but even, even after the lockdown ends, I think, uh, I think utilizing the resources that are out there is really important. Like, you know, we're, we're at a point now where pretty much, uh, every media server, uh, has free training online, uh, uh, Kristi Barco, they all have, they're all offering free training resources. Uh, you know, if there's a thing that you're interested in specifically, there's no reason not to be taking advantage of it. And I think there's a lot of us out there that are, that are aware of the resources, but maybe aren't putting the time in, but everything you do to, to, to increase your technical ability, uh, today is going to increase your worth on the show. Uh, later on, um, the other thing is networking. I mean, you know, we've been, we've been doing a daily zoom call with, uh, with our close friends and it's been really valuable for just getting everybody to talk because the most fun thing on every show is calm chatter. And, you know, and the discussions that you have with, uh, with the other technicians during the show can, it can create some really, uh, interesting breakthroughs and ideas. And, and so that, uh, that networking and conversation is really, really valuable. And, you know, I would encourage anyone listening to this to please reach out, uh, wherever you are, uh, you know, just call us. We're, we're, we're always willing to talk. We're always willing to invite new people.
Speaker 5 01:01:03 And that brings us to the last thing of all. How can they reach you? What's the best way to get ahold of visional, get ahold of you guys, ask questions, talk to people, bother the heck out of you, spam you on social media, whatever, like what's the best way to get ahold of you guys.
Speaker 3 01:01:20 We're we're on every, on every social media platform, uh, visual productions on Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn and all of that, or our website is visual about pro as in productions pro. Okay. Um, and, uh, yeah, there's, there's tons of ways to reach out, uh, and, and, um, you know, get in touch with us directly and talk about, uh, you know, where the future leads. Awesome.
Speaker 2 01:01:46 Yep. I'm going to just add one quick thing and that I, I find it anecdotal sort of like you get, you get somebody that has reached out to you and they've, they've done some study. They've studied up on spider, like say they've taken a few xAd training classes, but they've never touched one there. They don't know a thing about it. They get onsite though. And they know a feature that I've never even heard of, you know, and they're still learning it. And I think it's a wonderful thing. It's, it's awesome. It's like, that's great win.
Speaker 5 01:02:16 And your willingness to be humble enough to say, I didn't know that that is so great. I mean, it just, it all comes full circle and that's fantastic. I love that. Awesome guys. Well, Hey, thank you so much. Appreciate the time. Uh, really enjoyed chatting really enjoyed the conversation today. It was a lot of fun and, uh, I appreciate, I hope you guys have a great day and I keep working hard and hopefully we have a gig really soon. I'm sure, Jordan. Thanks guys. Thanks buddy. Thanks so much for taking the time to listen today. I know that as a professional each and every one of us want to be better tomorrow than we were today. That's why we created the gig ready podcast. This is a place where professionals can come and look at what they're doing. Look at how they're doing it and get better.
Speaker 5 01:03:05 Every single day. We are solely value for value. We're not going to take corporate interests. We're not going to take sponsorship money. We want you to get better solely because that's what you want. So please give us some feedback. I want to get better. I want to create better podcasts. I want to create better events, just like you do. So if you have some value, you want to give back ideas, thoughts, questions, even, even the ability to be a little critical at times, I would love to hear from you. Thank you so much. I hope you have a great day. Stay safe out there and stay. Get ready. <inaudible>.
