Episode Transcript
Speaker 0 00:00:00 This is the gig ready podcast. <inaudible> This is it. Episode 36 of the gig ready podcast. I'm here with my buddy, Joe Mack, Joe, how you doing today, brother?
Speaker 2 00:00:27 I'm doing okay. I'm doing all right. How about yourself
Speaker 0 00:00:31 Doing pretty well, other than the computer meltdown earlier before the show? Um, it seems like you're doing well. How's the, uh, how's the event industry coming back? Are you, you starting to feel some, some, I can't even think of a good word right now, inklings of, uh, stuff happening. I
Speaker 2 00:00:49 Think things are trickling in, uh, it's feeling like we're getting to Christmas and the packages are being purchased. They haven't been wrapped and put under the tree yet, but I think we're really, really close and then things are just going to happen. But it's, it's definitely feeling like fall is going to blow up real fast,
Speaker 0 00:01:12 Excited for it. And, uh, knowing that we might actually have events today. Um, we decided to go with a little bit of a different topic today, and I'm really excited to have a friend of mine, uh, known. I've actually known him for almost 20 years. Um, security consultant, uh, Eric Russo, out of the Washington DC Metro area. He's gonna, he's here today to talk to us a little bit about events security as we're coming back to live events, as we're coming back to people onsite doing pharmaceutical events, whether it's tech events or it's a drug launch, or it's a association meeting. Um, there's a lot of things that we have to protect as we get back to the in-person stuff, whether it's intellectual property, whether it is people, CEOs and those principles that are important to that. So we're going to spend a little bit of time discussing what that looks like best practices and how we can really execute a great security strategy and also understand why people do what they do onsite, because sometimes it seems a little funny. So Eric, thanks for coming in. We appreciate you taking the time and volunteering to, uh, throw your S throw yourself on the sword for this one.
Speaker 2 00:02:23 Thank you, Jordan. Hey Joe, thank you very much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 0 00:02:28 No problem. Well, let's, I mean, let's start at the beginning. Um, we have a lot of, a lot of people who work backstage, um, whether it is, you know, lots of concerts, but especially corporate events or walking through the back hallways of hotels, they're backstage in ballrooms, they interact with whether it's the 82 or one of the camera guys that interacts directly with the CEO or the lead principals or the people who are on stage communicating the big ideas, the great things that are happening at, um, let's start from the beginning of, you know, a lot of CEOs have handlers, they've got security, they got people protecting them. Um, what does it look like? You know, just in a quick five minute idea of from the time they arrive in whatever city they're in, let's say we're going to Orlando. Um, what's kind of the step-by-step process that, that security looks at. Here's what we do and how we do it from the time they land and hit the ground. Uh, you know, they've a very tight schedule all the way till they boom, come right back around to get on that plane or get in that car to take off again. You want to give us a quick idea of what that looks like.
Speaker 2 00:03:38 Sure. Um, I guess we can back up a minute and talk about, uh, it really depends on the protected, the person that the protection team is responsible for and what that person's role is, how high profile they are, what industry they're in, uh, the difference between, uh, former president CEO, dignitary from a foreign country or a rockstar, all of those are treated differently. Um, one thing, uh, that doesn't change is the advanced planning and the onsite experience for us. We treat them all equally, um, and it all begins with a phone call or a schedule of an upcoming event. And that's normally several weeks, several months, several years in advance. And that's the beginning of the process. Uh, for us, it would be a scheduled event. We'd get a phone call and that would begin the logistics of the protection assignment for that particular event.
Speaker 2 00:04:42 Um, we'd begin by conducting basic intelligence on the city, uh, you know, any potential deaths that they might be interacting with, anyone that they're exposed to, that they touch hands with, uh, that they might come in contact with as best as possible. It really depends on the event itself. It's a stadium event. There's only so much you can do directly control access, um, versus a book signing that tends to be a little bit smaller. So it begins with that advanced preparation down to the minute, literally down to the minute of what that individual schedule is going to be. And then we normally in advance of that event, send out a team, uh, one to three individuals to conduct what's called advanced operations. So we visit each site. That would be the venue, whatever arena we might be going to green rooms, restrooms, uh, backstage staging, everything that that individual might come in contact with.
Speaker 2 00:05:47 We want to see in advance, we want to walk it. We want to physically touch it. We want to see what it's gonna look like before we even show up. Because what that allows us to do is take all that information back to the office and say, this is the plan that we need. This is how many team members we're going to need. This is how many vehicles we're going to need, and this is how we're going to put that plan together. Um, that plan is different for every single one. You know, it's hard to give this uniform answer, unfortunately. Um, and it's, uh, a tough way to, to, uh, you can't cookie cut, if that makes sense, the protection plan, of course. Um, so let me, uh, kick it back to you for, uh, a response to that. So
Speaker 0 00:06:37 Then if you're looking at the pre pre-planning, so you're, you're basically going to say, okay, we know that they have to do XYZ in this order. They're going to land, they land at 9:00 AM, you know, private, let's say private airport, private place, you have the car waiting for them. You pick them up, you drive them to the site. They have to go here, green room, they're onstage at 10 30, they're off stage at 11, and then they are, they have four different executive meetings, and then they're on their way back to the airport. Let's say, um, are you, are you actually walking through that whole process before they go? And you know, you walk every area and all that sort of stuff, or do you just survey it, make sure it's what you want it to be. And then, and then walk away.
Speaker 2 00:07:29 Well, once we, uh, make the visit, then we start putting the plan together of securing the particular venue or hotels. So that, uh, I think Joe, we were talking earlier about coordinating with teams of, uh, that per, perhaps a CEO already has a protection team through the corporation. And then they're coming to an event, uh, we're organized and coordinating with onsite security. So Jordan you're most familiar with probably what we would term yellow shirts, I guess, perimeter or facility security at these venues. So, uh, when we arrive, we're walking through, we're watching, you know, where they're placing individuals, where are their checkpoints? Where are the, where's the bike rack? What type of control do they have to backstage? And then we're documenting that making notes and looking for weaknesses that we will come back then and ask them to strengthen either with more personnel, more bike rack, with physical barriers, whatever it is in essence, trying to keep that cocoon for lack of a better term around that protectee as we move them through that event that day.
Speaker 2 00:08:41 Um, and we tried to do that on at each location, so that doesn't just occur at the venue. You know, oftentimes we're doing this at airports, we're doing it at private aviation facilities. We're doing it at the, um, it really comes down to if we can't control who can get close to that individual, we can't control their safety. Got it. And if we don't know who is coming near them and we can't control that, then we can't really assure their safety in essence. So everything we're doing is trying to harden you that at that event. So one person who always has access to a VIP is the microphone guy. The lab guy always come and get access to the, so the town, you know, so that's the one person we always want to know. We want to find in a production team, who's putting the microphone on them.
Speaker 2 00:09:34 That's where we want to talk to as odd as that sounds, that doesn't sound the most embarrassed, anything, you know, I, I, I think the two is the one who's Mike and them up. This is probably one of the most important people, uh, in a team, in a production team. Um, because not only are they the one putting the mic on them, they're, uh, giving them that last, uh, confidence boost or whatever it is that they need prior to going out on that stage to deliver that, that incredible message. Um, and so, so I, I, I agree 100% that that does the one person you need to know, uh, absolute winning event and it can really make or break an event, you know, because if that one individual says the wrong thing to that person, before they go on stage, it could really throw a wrench into things, you know, so,
Speaker 0 00:10:27 And there, and there are a lot of people, honestly, that don't take, uh, that don't put it put much stock in that position. I know, I know plenty of people that have been like, Oh, I don't want to be the two anymore. I want to be the Awan. I want to be the guy pushing the faders. I want to be the guy that's making the music, you know, making the music happen and not realizing the impact, uh, that they have on an event far beyond the guy that might be adjusting the levels out front. And not that that person is not important, but it it's just a different level of importance. Um, so from the standpoint, what about, so that, that type of a scenario feels more like a public event, a public facing event, whether it's a concert, whether it's a, you know, some sort of speaking event for a former president or a dignitary or somebody like that. What about a more low key event for, you know, an internal, let's say, you know, you've got a CEO of a large fortune 500 company that, uh, you know, while the internally everybody is good and they're great, there can still be some things that happen on the outside. I mean, a great example, you know, bill Gates getting a pie in the face when he was walking from one place to another, I, I don't remember where it happened, but we've all seen it was coming
Speaker 2 00:11:43 Out of a hotel. Yeah. It was coming out of a hotel and somebody didn't do their advanced work because somebody should have walked out of that door before he out and seen that guy with the PI yeah. Somebody didn't do their job. They ended up getting fired for that, obviously, but that's, you know, that's kind of a good example of, you know, that advanced work and, and, uh, what we talked about and that advance approach applies throughout, you know, somebody has to go ahead if that makes sense to make sure the coast is clear know. Um, but that's a great story. I've seen that video, tons of times
Speaker 0 00:12:20 It has become a meme across the internet, as we all know, you see just the one part. And then that, you know, from, from what I ever saw, like before that, you know, bill would always fly coach and, and fly on, on commercial planes and all that stuff. And that was like a huge shift, uh, for him, especially where he changed his whole plan on how he interacted with the public on how he, you know, worked around Microsoft. So I mean, things like that can have a huge effect on people and on what they do and the decisions that they make. Um, what about the people, uh, let's say at a, at a more of a private, uh, let's say in-house events. So pharmaceutical companies, for instance, they do sales meetings every year. Tech companies do sales meetings every year, they get all their salespeople together.
Speaker 0 00:13:09 They get all of the people who are, um, really making the magic happen from the standpoint of sales and getting the product out there. Um, they're talking about things that involve intellectual property that involve, um, pro product information that involve things that are private to the company. Um, what are some best practices that, that people can employ maybe from a technician standpoint to actually help the security company maintain the protection around that, because they're not going to be able to cover everything. Um, you know, what are some things that you would say to them say, Hey, these are some things you can do that will help make sure, even if it's just to the don't get angry at the security guy when he stops you at the door and asks you for your pass. Um, yeah. Um,
Speaker 2 00:14:02 You bring up, it brings up a good, uh, uh, issue Jordan, and it applies not just to corporate events. I mean, any event that has a per touch, a production crew. And this is what intrigued me when we started talking about during this episode is we work so interchangeably. At least we did meaning, but people that I've worked with in my firm, in my experience, we always tried to coordinate with production crews because we never wanted to inconvenience them. We wanted to never want it to interfere with the job that they had to achieve, which was always making our boss look good for sound good, you know, and it was critical to us to accommodate every production need not inconvenience due to security. And it made me think of that when you brought up the corporate event, you know, these are the CEO is their boss, but you know, he, or she still feels an obligation to them and wants to be close to them and they should have that availability, but there are ways to do proper screening, um, you know, controlling access, issuing credentials, controlling lists of people.
Speaker 2 00:15:11 You know, the more information, the better if we know who you are, and we know you're here and everything is okay, then have fun. If we don't know who you are, just let us find out and then go have fun. You know, like you said, gotta be willing to be identified and, and do what you have to. Um, but it's a fine balance because you don't really want to inconvenience the guests. You don't want to inconvenience production crews, you know, some security teams do I've experienced it. You know, they want to, they feel that their position is so important and so critical that it circumvents everyone else not understanding how really it's all fits together in the end it's especially event driven protection, because it's so critical. That's why we're there ultimately is your event, you know? So how, how, how have you guys experienced that with other security teams?
Speaker 2 00:16:06 I mean, have you dealt with some that are more amenable to working with you guys? Some that are less, I mean, what's been your experience, it's really a case by case, but you know, I've worked with some pretty high level security, uh, teams because, um, whether it's been a political event or, uh, an event that had political ramifications or, uh, securities and financial ramifications, things like that, where they kept everything really close to the vest. And a lot of times, you know, things were, were redacted on scripts right up until doors. And then they'd say, Oh, by the way, this person's coming. And, and it was like, Oh, okay, cool. You know, and then we move on to the thunder day, but yeah, I mean, it, it definitely varies job to job. And I'm, I'm curious in your advanced preparation, like how much of it is reliant on you versus say, uh, uh, an in-house security team that, that wants to manage either contents, content, security, physical security, um, even just like letting people know that they're in town, right.
Speaker 2 00:17:23 Like having it leak on social media, that XYZ person is staying at this hotel. Well, what are they there for? Oh, they must be there for that event. That is for that pharmaceutical company. You know what I mean? Like how, how, how do you, uh, are you the all encompassing or do you just follow the lead of somebody else? Good question. Our approach was this, um, typically our presence was at the request of the individual who was responsible for paying for whatever event. Ultimately they're the talent, you know, in essence, whether it be a CEO, quite frankly, or a rockstar, whoever normally we're there on their behalf. So everybody's attention is on us. So we use that to our advantage, to coordinate every person involved in what you just described. So we would meet with the vent, the head of the venue security. Uh, we would meet with the head of hotel secure.
Speaker 2 00:18:23 We would try to get everybody into one room because a time management and B, it just allowed us to maximize as much information from as many people at one time and try and filter through it all and get everybody on the same page. So we would act as the leader of that, uh, group of people and organize that, uh, it could be if we were using transportation companies, as opposed to our own, uh, transportation, we would coordinate with them onsite at the venue. We would meet with the head of production, critical to have had a production there, um, because they're instrumental in walking us through the exact timeline of where we need to be when we need to be there, why we need to be there and who's going to be there. That's the, your most critical person is the lead production person. Um, and, and trying to facilitate all of that, how it applies to our protecting a lot of what we do doesn't apply to anything the event does.
Speaker 2 00:19:26 We're only exposed to that event while we're on site. But I would, if I were to venture a guess, it was probably about, gosh, triple digit numbers of hours of preparation before we even get onsite with numerous individuals to be on site Jordan, sometimes what we'd be on site, maybe a few hours, you know, half a day. And we'd go to the next city, you know, depending on the VIP. So long-winded question, Joe is we tried to coordinate all of that, the best we could at the top, and only because we wanted to manage it, uh, to mitigate any potential risks that we see when gathering all of this information from all these parties that are involved. You
Speaker 0 00:20:12 Know, I know, I know from my experience everybody's been for the most part, been amenable. I have, I think maybe one in 50, you know, you get the security guy that thinks he's all that and a bag of chips. Um, even the secret service was always, um, very kind. I mean, I I've had the privilege of doing, doing events with whoever the current president at the time or the vice president was many years ago, former presidents. Um, and you know, other than, all right, guys, clear the room we're coming through with, you know, bomb dogs and everything else we're getting ready for for that. Um, you know, every, and that's
Speaker 2 00:20:52 The methodology that we use as well. The U S secret service Jordan. I mean, they're, they're, they're the best, you know, um, I've never worked for them. I've had retired circuits, uh, secret service agents work for me. They're some of the greatest, um, and there's nobody better at protection. You know, now I've also worked with a lot of other three letter agency, people who claim to be experts, I would beg to differ because there's only one agency that protects, and that's the U S secret service. Now there's smaller units in other three letter for letter agencies that do that, but no one on the scale, and they're just infinite professionals, uh, as you experienced Jordan, you know, just the, because they know how much of an inconvenience it is for you, you know, ultimately that's what it boils down to, you know what, um, so Jordan brought up a good point about, uh, you know, security of, of data and information and with the advent of these zoom meetings and, uh, and remote, or, um, virtual, but we like to call remote right, uh, remote experiences and how, as we roll into this hybrid version of meetings, how, uh, how are you as a security team going to also now have to deal with the, the hybrid portion that, that stream that's out there that can be grabbed by any, uh, entity that, that wants to, to get that information or, or get video of the event, um, to leak it, or, or explodes, you know, expose it and, or utilize it to, to their advantage later on, uh, I, we tend to rely on, I have a very good friend who has worked in, uh, for several large technical companies in their data, networking, uh, divisions.
Speaker 2 00:22:56 Um, he's an expert on CA uh, encryption, encryption, technology, networking, security, you know, all of these things. Um, ultimately that's done well before that event occurs. Uh, I think we were talking about this before we started, you know, a lot of this, the security of intellectual property begins well before they even get there, um, most major, uh, whether it be pharmaceutical, technical, whatever company has a good team already in place that has that infrastructure. So by the time they're getting out of bed, it's being transferred there to secure that data. Um, the biggest weakness, we found it at events like that is just people leaving their, stuck, sitting around their phone. Somebody gets up and goes the bathroom. They don't understand that that phone has the data that's at that event that can be transferred off split seconds by serious players in the intellectual property theft industry.
Speaker 2 00:23:58 You know, you're talking foreign government levels, you're talking competitive levels. There are corporations that pay firms like me to protect them against their competitors, and also gather information on their competitors simultaneously. There's no doubt about it that it occurs. They won't admit it, but it does. It's just the nature of business, how we secure that. Um, it it's well beyond my technical capability and I'm not even going to pretend to try and explain it for us. It's in essence, the same it's controlling access, whether it be information, people, a room, a green room, whatever it is, you're controlling that access. If you can get a grip on it, you can control it and not let it leak inappropriately. So
Speaker 0 00:24:50 It's much easier to stop someone from getting into a room than to try and figure out how they got in there and then how to get back, whatever they may have taken at that point in time. Um, so,
Speaker 2 00:25:02 And that's the biggest weakness is the human frailty of thinking. They're just going to the bathroom, they're going to take, they're stuck with them. And that's how it's grabbed, you know,
Speaker 0 00:25:12 Well, I mean the grab your phone, pick it up, you know, I mean, keep it in your pocket, whatever that may, whatever that may be. I mean, I've had, um, middle of a middle of a ballroom. I had a laptop stolen off the table once. Um, you guys
Speaker 2 00:25:26 Using the technology now I know, um, well maybe I won't mention names, but a pretty well-known comedian several are doing a show in Vegas, upcoming, and they're using this technology where, uh, you put the cell phones, it is lockable a security badge. So the individual can hold onto their phone, but I guess they can't take video or use the cameras and release the performance prematurely. And then it's released. I mean, you guys use those at all at any of your events. I've
Speaker 0 00:25:58 Used a semblance of it. Um, I've done some stuff where I did like some tech launches where we had to leave our phones. You know, there wasn't a bag per se, but they're like, all right, phones are out here. You check your phone in with security before you walk into the room. Um, I have had events where the attendees were required, where they had lockers, basically outside the doors. And, you know, basically it's a, it's, you know, it's a 50 or 100 little phone locker thing. You open it up, you slide your phone in, they give you a code. And then on your way back out, you just pop your number in bang, your thing opens up like Amazon locker basically. And you pull your phone out, um, you know, because they didn't want it in there. Um, during that, during that time, um, those are the two things that I've experienced, honestly, very infrequently. Um, just because I think that a lot of the meetings are very our internal meetings that we do. And, and they're not as worried about, you know, well, they're salespeople, we're still going to have the information
Speaker 2 00:26:55 I've done. Right? Exactly. I've done a hundred events, hundreds of events where we were either given some kind of wristband that allowed us access to be using our phones in a room. Um, and if we didn't have that, if we didn't have that wristband, um, then they would, you know, the second you pulled out, you're gone see ya, or I've done events where they've put, um, like special security tape over your cameras. Uh, and, and if it's removed, it leaves like terrible film. So they have a process to actually get it off cleanly. Um, and, and so, yeah, I've done several events where, where, uh, you know, the security was so tight that they, if you had to have your laptop, or you had to have your phone, uh, for any reason that, that they had ways of preventing you from, from using it to, to photograph or, or record anything.
Speaker 2 00:27:53 Yeah. There's various technologies available currently. I mean, I think what we're talking about though is, uh, protecting social media leaks of information, you know, when you get to the level of intellectual property or, uh, you know, theft of intellectual property from foreign government actors or professionals, they're not coming in with a cell phone. And if you think they're coming in with the cell phone, you're really in the wrong line of business, because that's not how they're doing it. Now we do that to keep prematurely the products information that we don't want getting out early, you know, but ultimately if the actor wants that information, they're not going to get it that way, you know? Um, but there is a threat or a risk to that that still needs to be mitigated. Um, it's just kind of a different level, I think, of, of protection, um, that's required.
Speaker 2 00:28:50 So, um, fortunately a lot of companies are willing to invest in the amount of costs that it takes to secure these events. It seems like that's a little more realistic than it used to be even 10 years ago. You know, maybe just circumstantially people realize they have to be willing to invest in security. And I'm interested to see, uh, how security is run on the Olympics, uh, um, because of the availability and, and use of drones. You know, there's so much more drone activity, um, being used to spy on people or to fly over people. And, um, we actually did an event where the security team had a trained Hawk. That was, that was just flying around because it was outdoors and it was flying around to keep any drones away and, and, uh, and found out that there was still a drone about two and a half miles away from us that was filming it to get just the worst photograph they could possibly get insured. And it was posted online and that's, you know, those Hawks are amazing too. I mean, they'll literally just go pick them right out of the sky and bring them back so we can analyze them, see who owns them, whatever, try and forensically determine what's going on with it, you know, go figure, use a Hawk out the oldest technology available. Right.
Speaker 0 00:30:19 How does that not like slice up their feet or something if they're trying to grab that with the propellers and everything else. I mean, I'm, I'm asking, I think about that. I'm like, well, how do they grab it without,
Speaker 2 00:30:30 I mean, the talons on the, the one that I saw were about as long as your fingers, just their talents. So they essentially damage what they're grabbing with their talents, because they're so strong. That's believe it or not. Yeah. It's pretty cool.
Speaker 0 00:30:47 I have to say that's one of the coolest things I've ever heard of it. I've never heard of that before, so that is awesome.
Speaker 2 00:30:53 Yeah. Yeah. Um, actually a lot of, uh, uh, middle Eastern, uh, countries practice that, you know, with the Falcons, with the Falcons. Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 0 00:31:07 Cause I know I've, I have a friend who was on a plane. Uh, there was, uh, he was, it was on a commercial flight, but there was a trainer and a Falcon that were traveling in first class and the Falcon had his own seat. Um, and apparently they like put the bar across the, across the, the, the arm rest. And he was, you know, perched on there with his little mat, with his mask on and the, whoever the Salton or the Prince or whomever had bought that Falcon. They had it traveling and yeah, he had his own first class seat to Florida, two
Speaker 2 00:31:41 Beats better than us counter counter, counter surveillance, Falcon that sits in first class. You know, so, but that's good to hear that, you know, your experiences with most security teams as positive. I mean, that's really good, you know, I mean, I've had some, I've had to fire people because of inappropriate behavior around production crews, you know, and, and, um, so that's good to hear that, that you guys had some positive experiences. I mean, personally, I've, I've always been, um, both fascinated and a little obsessed with security because of the Atlanta Olympics, you know, that bombing in front of house, that's it right at my feet. Um, and, and for me, I'm always keeping an eye out for everybody around me and the safety of, um, and so, so it's, it's been a kind of a point of interest for, and not that I want to get into security, but I like to think through all the potential, um, issues that, that can pop up if, if something were to go wrong and it's, I mean, production teams are critical and security.
Speaker 2 00:32:52 Um, you know, I think event security or yellow shirts get a really bad name for themselves. They get a bad rap of most of them are infinite professionals. Some are better than others. We had one event years ago. Tom tells this story, Jordan. Um, I actually did, wasn't there present at this event, but lady shows up backstage at a checkpoint and she's says that calamity Jane told her to come and see that the I'll leave the name out of the VIP that we were there with. And the yellow shirt guy was said, okay, well, you know, let me see if I can help you. And he gets on the radio and says, Hey, we have a guest here. She says, Oh yeah, by the way, um, calamity Jane gave me her six shooter and I have it in my purse and I need to give it to the vip.dot dot, and the, you can see on the surveillance camera, the eye of the yellow shirt guy go about as big as you can get.
Speaker 2 00:33:55 When he, she opens the purse, he looks down in and sure enough, there's a revolver in her purse. And his first question is how did you get to this point with that revolver in your purse? So of course there's 12 of us on the radio that your pieces, the pig tails, everything blows up. Everybody goes, running, turns out. She's just a lady with, uh, mental health issues. She didn't know what she was doing. She didn't know who, you know, she was in essence harmless if she didn't have a firearm in her back. But that type of scenario always sticks in the forefront of my memory when I'm walking into an event or backstage, and I'm looking at bike rack and I'm looking at where the yellow, uh, the house security guys are placed. Who's there I go up and literally talk to them and have a conversation with them at length so I can make sure and look them in the eye and make sure they're cognizant ask them about their background.
Speaker 2 00:35:00 Are they in the military? Do they have law enforcement experience? And this kind of gets back Jordan to your original question of walking through what we do. You know, that's a lot of it is FaceTime with people who we need as allies, because we can't be everywhere at one time. And Joe, you made me think about that. You know, production guys, you all are. So well-versed in security because you've experienced it in so many different areas, rock and roll, corporate, whatever. You're so exposed to that on a regular basis. You're a huge asset to us, you know, at that, at least that's the way we always looked at it. I don't know if all firms do that. It's just was our approach because you made our lives so much easier. You know? So as odd as that may sound, you know, you guys really do well.
Speaker 0 00:35:47 And I think most people have realized that. And as we all know, you attract more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. And, um, you know, one thing that I always try and remind people of is, and I forget this, I'll be the first one to say that I get grumpy when I'm in a hurry and I get stopped by the yellow shirt or somebody else that says, Hey, you know,
Speaker 2 00:36:08 No, you're not get grumpy Jordan. You're not a grumpy person. Well,
Speaker 0 00:36:12 I may not show it. It's going on up in my brain up here. I'm like, come on. Um, but just take, just take a breath, take a moment. I mean, honestly for me, it comes down to planning ahead and leaving two minutes early. Cause you know, when you're showing up at a high profile event that someone's going to ask you for your, for your, your identification, your credentials, whatever might be, you know, used on that particular thing or even the guy at the back gate before you even get inside when you're coming in for the first day. And they're like, who are you? What are you doing? Um, you know, taking the 30 seconds, it takes to, to be kind, stop, be patient, understand that they are just doing their job. And, um, and, and that's what the security guys are there for. And they are there to help stop. Like, you know, Joe, you said what happened at, at the, at the Atlanta Olympics, they are there to help at least create, um, a barrier that would help to prevent tragic things like that. Um, and, and honestly, I would say if I had to guess, and Eric, you can probably confirm this way. More things have been prevented than have actually been allowed to happen because we've had the proper security in the proper place to make sure that everybody is protected. Uh, whether it be the principal or whether it be the attendee,
Speaker 2 00:37:37 Uh, Jordan, that's a great point. I mean, it's, it's so true. It's the only industry that I have experienced where nothing happens. They start questioning whether they really need to be Penn because nothing happened. And my response was always, if nothing's happening, that's a good day for us. You know, and prevention is key. We always made it a point that when incidents occurred, especially in preparation or advance, or like you said, preventative, we always reported this always because it was the only way that we could show our effectiveness, you know? Um, well, you're right, Jordan, I mean, 99.9% is prevention. And, uh, I'll associate that to your content, uh, comments on kindness. You know, I try to be as kind as possible, but if you see me angry and screaming and yelling at you to get out of the way, so you better be listening because when I'm doing that, you better be going with me or, you know, bad things are happening.
Speaker 2 00:38:40 Yeah. But they don't get that contrast if I'm a jerk all the time. Correct. So here's a, here's a great security, kindness story. So, uh, Portland had just, just, uh, secured the number one pick in the NBA draft. And, uh, there was a rock show going on down at the Rose garden arena. And, uh, this yellow shirt was, was gardened the back, uh, loading dock area. And this number one draft pick rolls up to the gate. And he's like, you know, any stops, I'm sorry, sir, you can't come in here. And my buddy just happened to be there. And he was with the tour that was going through and he looks at him and of course he's a, you know, eight feet tall and he looks up at him and he goes, he, his, his badge is on the side of this building. You can let them, literally, they just put an entire banner of the entire Rosa garden of him and, and, uh, but he was kind about it, you know, he wasn't a jerk. He was like, okay, sure. And he was like standing there. And then my buddy went and got him a pass and got them in the door. But, but you know, that kind of thing with security is, is key to keeping everybody safe. You know, no matter who you are, you're no more important than anybody else when it comes to safety and security. And that's what we tried to emphasize too, you know, it's, it's, everybody's equally valuable from that sense, for sure. You know? So, um,
Speaker 0 00:40:13 Awesome. Well, Hey Eric, thank you so much for taking the time today and I appreciate it. Um, security can go super in depth and we will not, we won't get into the world of, uh, the world of cyber security today. Cause that's an entirely separate beast.
Speaker 2 00:40:32 I'll bring on another expert for that if you want, because that's way out of my expertise for sure. Sorry.
Speaker 0 00:40:38 And it certainly, I think it's certainly something that we're going to have to touch on. Um, you know, computers, as we already know, I mean, there are billions of cell phones and billions of devices out there and having the discussion about how to properly secure devices, how to properly secure presentations, um, you know, people put stuff in PowerPoints and they put proprietary information in them. And how many people have forgotten that there's a proprietary bit of information in some PowerPoint somewhere and they just attach it to an email and pink off it goes. Um, I'm sure it happens every day. Thankfully, you know, at least in my experience, we haven't had any major issues with that, but I think it's definitely something to discuss in the future, uh, when it comes to intellectual property, when it comes to, uh, people's personal data and personal information, how to protect that and secure that when you're not at and not on your own, uh, on your own devices. So yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:41:37 We talked early in the, in the show, uh, or before the show about, um, cleaning up the venue, you know, I've seen, I've seen shows where, you know, Oh, you know, don't let anything leak. Don't let anything leak. And then you walk out of the room and there's still a show script, you know, sitting on a desk or whatever. And it's like, uh, you share about that, you know? Yeah, no, go ahead.
Speaker 0 00:42:00 Go ahead. No, I was just going to say a lot of the good production companies that I work with. Like they have the burn bins and that's a great thing. It's like, frankly, nobody needs those once the show is over, but forgetting it on the table is just the last thing you want to do. You pick it up, you know, you walk into the production office, you say, Hey guys, where's the burn ban. And they'll tell you where it is and you drop it in there and then they take care of it and they get, you know, they, they just basically scrubbed the room if you will, and make sure that everything's clean and clear and, uh, and that all as well.
Speaker 2 00:42:32 Yeah. I mean, we usually made that a common part of our practice is sending in a cleaner, you know, at every break and at the end of every event, you know, to give instruction on proper, uh, break or, you know, process or whatever, securing phones, bad thing. So yeah, but Jordan, thank you for having me. I really enjoyed being on a podcast and thank you and Joe, it was great talking to you as well. Yeah. Nice meeting you. Thank you. Yeah, man.
Speaker 0 00:42:57 Thanks guys. I appreciate everything. I hope you have a great week. Uh, glad to be back, uh, starting to do events here and we're going to have a great summer. I'm really looking forward to it. So, um, thanks everybody. Take care and uh, hope you guys have a great week.
Speaker 2 00:43:12 All right. Thank you.
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