Speaker 0 00:00:00 This is the gig ready podcast.
Speaker 1 00:00:02 <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:00:17 Buddy Jordan Goodfellow here with gig ready, and we have an exciting afternoon for you today. We have the one and only John Featherstone, principal and chief lighting designer at light switch design. Uh, one of my all time, favorite people, good friend colleague, fellow business owner. And, uh, I love working with him every show we do together. So let's welcome, John, John, how are you today, sir?
Speaker 1 00:00:44 I'm doing it as I say, often at the moment, as well as can be expected. You want, I help you. And everybody that's listening is, is the same. These are difficult and challenging times, but, um, the expression I believe is that which does not kill us, makes us stronger. So we're going to emerge when they say stronger and better business,
Speaker 0 00:01:01 A hundred percent. Um, I think everybody will emerge stronger. I'm excited actually for what is going to come of this. Um, you know, I think that this is going to be that moment where everybody has to dig a little deeper, think a little bit more different than the way that we've been doing it. Um, you know, for the last 10 years or so. And, uh, I think there'll be a lot of opportunity coming out of this that we don't even see yet. So, you know,
Speaker 1 00:01:28 Yeah. W will will Smith. The actor has, has a great quote. He says, God puts everything worthwhile and on the other side of fear. So I think that's a really good way to think about this, but everything that involves growth and development and strength, both personally and professionally always comes on the other side of the desk. So that's what I'm doing is I'm trying to look forward with bright eyes towards a bright future. I'm trying not to look back at what we've gone through or what we're going through, but just continue to, to manifest them more, a more, a more positive tomorrow.
Speaker 0 00:01:59 That's right. And ultimately that's our goal here at gig readiness to help everybody listening, be more ready for their next gig once they're done listening than they are right now, so that we are better and stronger as we go forward. So
Speaker 1 00:02:11 Let's talk about Gates as we can't do gigs, let's at least talk about them.
Speaker 0 00:02:15 Exactly. And it's the thing we don't ever get to do at gigs is spend time talking about them. So, uh, to start it off, ultimately, um, you know, you lighting designer a designer in general experiences, storytelling, um, when you walk into an event, what do you see your role as a designer, whether it's virtual, whether it's hybrid, whether it's live in person experience, um, how do you, how do you approach that mentally and, and look at that as a designer?
Speaker 1 00:02:46 Yeah, that's a great question, Jordan, I think for, for us. And it's one of the reasons why I enjoy working with you because I think you embraced this as well. Um, it, it's, it's all about the story, you know, and, and it's easy for those of us that are gear and you're a fellow gear junkie as well to get called into the, Hey, look at this cool thing, look at this new way, look at this technique. But, but what we like to do is always pull it back to the story and, and really understand our clients and what story they're trying to tell, whether it's a spaceship company or a hotel or a theme park or a corporate plan or a concert performer. What we view our job is, is to help them tell their story. And in order to do that with accuracy and add efficiency, efficiency for every aspect, whether it's financial or pragmatic, we need to really understand that story.
Speaker 1 00:03:35 Now sometimes, um, we work with clients who are super clear on what their story is and really, really not. I, I still have it when we started to work with, um, uh, the band imagine dragons where before they, even on their first club tour, uh, and, and when I was talking to them and we were working with my dear friend collaborates and look, Cheryl foul, uh, I said to them said, what do you guys want? What do you want me to show? Um, and, um, and Dan, the singer said, um, Oh, I've got something I'll send you. And it was literally every song, what the song was about the moods, where he wanted to take the audience to the set list and he mapped out everything. And interestingly Dan, before he, um, took the path of being a singer, being an imagine dragons was enrolled to be, to go to the FBI.
Speaker 1 00:04:25 So he's super analytical. There are other people who are less clear about that, Jordan. Um, and one of the things that, that I view as my, my job is to try and help people be comfortable talking about their story. Um, it's super easy to talk about brands and colors and logos and pallets and that stuff. But what we tried to do is always come back to how do you want to make people feel? I think the thing we're all missing at the moment is the emotional responsibility of a, of a shared live experience, whether it's a concert or a great business meeting, or seeing friends and exciting staff at an industry event like the like, uh, LDI, that's not physical visceral experience. Uh, and so we try to get people comfortable talking in abstract languages. So we use things like one of my favorite questions is there's a lot of hypotheticals with this now, but,
Speaker 2 00:05:17 But, um, you're on the plane.
Speaker 1 00:05:20 You're flying home. There's two people in the row behind you talking about your event. What do you want them to be saying? What are the things that you want them to carry away? We talk, uh, advice, which a lot about this notion of an emotional souvenir, which means that we want to work with our clients to give people a specific thing that they take away. And the clearer we can be about defining what that emotional souvenir is, the better we're going to be at delivering it. And frankly, if from a client standpoint, if they don't understand what they want their audience to have as an emotional souvenir, they're not ready to do an event. Um, uh, Albert Einstein said, if you can't explain something in two sentences, then you don't understand it. Um, and, and I think helping our clients do that. And again, it's one of the reasons why, why I think you and I may make good, uh, colleagues is, we're constantly asking you have this great. Why are we doing, you know, the, the Jeff Goldblum character in, um, in Jurassic park had a line. I love where he said, uh, you guys spent so long trying to figure out whether you could, you never even thought about whether you're sure. And, and I think we see a lot of that in our business where you got, that's really great. Why aren't you doing that? So,
Speaker 0 00:06:36 Oh man, I, yes, I totally get that. Um, it certainly is, is interesting. As we walked through, helping people understand and learn, like, what are you actually trying to do? I guess you have this massive screen here, but, you know, we didn't create any content for it. So help me understand what direction we're trying to go here.
Speaker 1 00:06:56 Right. Right. And, and I think staying clear on the, um, those that know me, I've heard me bang on about this a bunch of times before that, when people ask me how many shows I'm doing like you in, in, in times, other than, than, uh, in the middle of the global pandemic, we have a lot of projects on the go. Um, so people ask me how many shows I'm doing. And I'm saying, I'm always doing at least four. And I don't mean that I'm doing four different shows. I mean, I'm doing the same show through four different lenses. And what I mean by that is there's the show I'm doing for myself because I'm a creative person. And as a pretty pleasant, I have an ego and there are things that I want to do because I want to do them because they, I think that right.
Speaker 1 00:07:37 Um, and the second show I'm doing is the show I'm doing my colleagues, people like you, and, uh, jelly Epperson, who you had on recently, who I love to collaborate with and video designers and video directors and, and, and technical stuff. The third show is the show that we as a group do for our appearance client, the producer, and the client and the, and the end client, what do they want to deliver? What's the story they want to tell. But the most important one is the show that we do for really all of our clients, which is the audience. Um, and that's making sure that we don't let the production tail wag the dog or the audience experience, little things, things like, um, everything from asking people at front of house and keep their monitors as low as possible. So the audience behind concealed with them too, I, I, I'm, I'm a big advocate for watching your rehearsals from as many places as you possibly can, because there's only one person sitting where you're sitting in, that you to have experience about where other people are sitting.
Speaker 1 00:08:41 And I've seen you do this a lot. Jordan is get up into the balcony, see what other people are seeing, have a look at what other perspectives on, on the experiences and the, um, um, make sure you're not shining a light in somebodies the whole time. If you've got a rubber shop is the doing this, but the whole evening, make sure that's not in the eyes of somebody that spent 150 bucks for that ticket. And all they see is you think through the eyes of your audience. And I think that's that's, that will help you define a lot of the ways you interface and intersect with them.
Speaker 0 00:09:15 Great. That's fantastic. That's a great description. Um, I love the four, the four shows all wrapped up into one and, and that, that is something that I need to remember more often. How often do I get caught in my own? Like the one show that's for me forgetting what's going on around me.
Speaker 1 00:09:35 So, and both ways Jordan, cause I'm sure you, you like, <inaudible> give a shit meter pegs really. So I know you'll like me, you've got to because you, and I've talked about this, you've got to the end of the projects and, you know, and you're kind of one reason or another, it didn't go super well from your perspective. And you kind of had hung low and then you wrote as the client, the client's like, Oh my God, that was amazing. That was everything I could've hoped for a more 50 people have talked to me already about it. And so it's finding the balance point between those, because occasionally we'll do shows that the, where you peg at a hundred percent on all of those, but there's always the ebb and flow. And I think playing the average of those four is a great way for those of us that, uh, that are passionate creatives and also people that try to espouse the notion of being a pragmatic, visionary, that it's all about finding the balance between those different aspects of, of life of effort. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:10:29 No, it's a tough balance to find, and that of course speaks to the project itself. Um, you know, and how we take a project from start to finish, you know, there's this huge space in the middle, um, you know, at light switch, what do you guys do? Or you personally do to manage that process in between, like, what are the steps you look at? You know, a, B C if, if you look at it that way or however you see that, what are kind of the steps you take through that process from beginning to end?
Speaker 1 00:10:59 Um, all obviously we are, we are all over the map in terms of the kinds of projects. We're doing everything from live events to architectural projects, with themed environments to urban space making. So, so there, there aren't a lot of commonalities with, with the actual tactical execution, but I think there are some hallmarks to the way we try to, um, we, we are at our heart and collaborative team-based organization. That's why we're called Lightswitch, not let me get this right. Featherstone, Schwab, Warner, med vets, Malpass, uh, elec you know, kind of like the world's worst law practice, because we want to be a collaborative interactive. So we're all about sharing ideas, internally learning as many smart minds. And frankly, that applies to the whole group that there's, there's no such thing as a bad source for a good idea. Um, and then we try to think of information, you know, that there's, I believe there's a bipolar opinion about inflammation.
Speaker 1 00:11:57 There are people that think information is power, and then there are people that think information is empowerment. Um, and, and, and I'm at light switch in general, we trend, we trend the latter that we want to share information with people as efficiently, as effectively as possible. One of the things that I say all the time when we have people stop with us, and they're starting in the process often in the paperwork and drafting end of things, is the goal with a lighting bar or a set of lighting. Documentation is zero questions that if you're creating a document that you handle the production attrition to the technical director, to the rigor, to your colleagues in other departments, and you get crickets, that's, that's a win. Um, I know in theater, there's a, there's a different protocol that sometimes in theater design, the information is in a little bit more paid out on a rope.
Speaker 1 00:12:50 We try to put as much useful information as we can on the drawing. Now that then becomes, this is a whole, this is probably a whole nother podcast talking about drawings and documentation, because you can go too far and people are weeding through all this minutia and obfuscation to find the information they need, but delivering the information people want in a way that is clear and understandable and concise little things for us on our drawings, the symbol of the light looks like what the light actually is and the team they can look at it and go, Oh, that's a mega point. That's a Mac Viper. That's a BMF L cause it looks like, um, we're big on using color in drawings and documentation. We're learning designers. We like, we like playing with the presence. Of course. Um, so I think that processed your order is, is, is, is a commonality.
Speaker 1 00:13:40 The other thing that we try to do is make sure that we think about stuff as much as we possibly can. And ahead of time, that it's not throw a bunch of lights on a plot and get onsite. If you've got to move a bunch of them, it doesn't matter. It does. It's our client's money. We want them to be spent where the audience see it, not necessarily in writing, preferably in lighting, but also in video and audio and scenic, but we want every dollar to go where it has a demonstrable effect. So designing systems that go in really efficiently and at or below budget is, is important, but also being really clear ourselves. What's important. You, you and I have had several of these discussions with varying degrees of, shall we say passionate about it because there's a lot of stuff where we'll go.
Speaker 1 00:14:26 Yeah, of course you can move that. If he needs to hang a speaker, they had moved that over a little bit, the rigging point didn't land, where it's supposed to doesn't matter. But in all that, I think to have professional credibility, you need to be prepared to understand what you can let go, and then you need to have other people, your colleagues understand that when you go, not, I'm really sorry that she has to be there, that you mean it, and you don't pay that card all the time. You know, Kelly and I obviously working with, you know, <inaudible>, um, you know, carbon educated and all these great audio designers that, you know, just to name three, that we get to work with. There's an ebb and flow. We'll start with a million cubic feet arena. And we all want to be in the same six square feet area.
Speaker 1 00:15:07 So there's inevitably these kind of like, you know, it's a little, like find the production version of risk. You can add X that part of the territory first, but, but there needs to be an ebb and flow with that. And, and, and the people that I, that I just named and that there's a bunch more as well are enjoyable to work with because they're pragmatic as well as visionary. And when Stan says to me or common system, me or Kelly says to me, I really need, I need this. I'm sorry. I need a solid here. You know, the, the th the project we worked together on for, for, for new scheme, where we had, you know, Stan working on the audio designs for the, for the meeting side of it and common working with, uh, Colin pink from Hans Zimmer's organization, can't remember his name who makes, um, uh, uh, the Christina aggravator, uh, uh, potion.
Speaker 1 00:15:56 There was a, a number of different disciplines that, um, and, and constituent parties they needed to align. So when Carmen said, this is where I need the liner agents, this is what's going to make Colin happy. And yes, the Hans Zimmer show is going to look amazing, but to use a cliche, nobody goes home, humming the lights. Then I, then I understand that I have to, that I have to let that go and be flexible and nimble. But when I say, no, this is where I really need to put the Strauss because it's a spot position, and that's kind of what I need for the video. Then they know that I play that card only when I kind of already need to as well.
Speaker 0 00:16:33 Yeah. A hundred percent. In fact, there've been times I've come to you and said, John, I hate to ask this question, but we might consider a move. And before I even get it out of my mouth, you're like, Oh, that's fine. Don't worry about it. It'll be okay. Well, yeah.
Speaker 1 00:16:45 Well, favorite line you hadn't told me. I probably wouldn't have noticed
Speaker 0 00:16:49 Exactly. So through that process, you know, concept, put it on paper, take the paper, communicate with everybody on what needs to go, where, where we place it. What else do you guys use to stay organized? Of course, vector works. I mean, that is like the standard for all of us plots and sheets and everything else. What else, is there anything else that you guys are using as a, as a design firm to stay organized?
Speaker 1 00:17:13 Yeah, we, we, we're very lucky to have, um, Mike Robertson, you, you know, Mike, well, as one of our team who, who is the King of previous for us, and we were very early adopters of pre-visualization technology. Um, and th and for those from other disciplines that may not be familiar with it, it really started with a piece of software from a Canadian company. Those go Wiziwig, which was an anachronism. And what you see is what you get. And it's, it's basically lighting design meets video games, uh, and it lets us produce not even the kind of 3d you get from Vectorworks, which is great. And certainly with spotlight, it's great, but a real pragmatic way to pre-program shows. So we use that a lot as a valid data, and we encourage other departments to work with it. Some of the video direct cause we work with Randy, Young's a great example.
Speaker 1 00:18:06 Um, Randy will embrace the ability to double check where his cameras are to validate what is happening for him in a real 3d space. So what it lets us do is map not only the fixtures and their, and their positions, but the beam characteristics, the shape, you know, a lot of what we do, or certainly a lot of the way I work is, is basically drawing sheets in the air, using lighting, certainly for entertainment. So to be able to look at what those, those, um, aspects of the design look like as well as a real world. Yeah. Okay. I know spotlights being naturalistic is best, but, but I know that in 3d and we'll do things like eliminate the PA that it's close to. So I can make sure that the fixture is not only missing it from a true optical standpoint, but it's not for example, highlighting the PA.
Speaker 1 00:18:57 So, so we try to get, um, out of that to works and into, we sort of have a fork in the road where we reach a point where, where Vectorworks becomes a tool for, you know, lace jailer and Steve and Chris Jasper and all the great production nutritionists we work with that becomes their pragmatic guide touchstone and the creative side DC and my, and, and, and, uh, Chris Herman and Merman, and all the program has been worked with, start to move into a 3d world predominantly with MAA 3d, but also with the visualization software that the skies do as part of their offering, so that we can start to, um, to work really on the show from a pragmatic standpoint, queuing and focusing and pallets and groups and all of that kind of housekeeping, none of which you get in back to work. So you can do a beautiful rendering in fact works, but that doesn't actually move the needle in terms of the sh the process of the show. So, sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 0 00:20:00 No, no, I was just gonna say, so are you, are you moving into previous, like weeks before we even get onsite to Prius?
Speaker 1 00:20:08 Oh, yeah. And, and, and a lot of, uh, a lot of that, isn't so much about, um, writing Hughes, but doing the kind of pragmatic things that we were talking about. And, and obviously you can go into spotlight and you can grab where the light is pointing. You can wing it around, but DC sitting at home with his, um, on PC or, or, uh, even working with the, with the handles within, um, within a 3d and, you know, other visualizes are available, um, to move the light around, to be able to grab blocks of lights and frankly, with a moving light system, it used to be, gosh, and I remember Jordan, I'm going to date myself here where if you had, I, you know, I took Duran Duran arenas, and we have 48 Vera lights. And it was a lot, I remember the first, the, the first tour that I did that had a hundred VR lights.
Speaker 1 00:21:02 And you went beyond the first page of the century panel. And if you remember that from the very best we had one through 100, and then you that's how you would select lights was, it was a 10 by 10 matrix. The first time we did a tour that got onto the second page of that, we were like, Oh man, you know, this is insane. But now, I mean, you know, new skin D D C and Mike between them, you know, Mike was programming winches on new skin. DC was programming the lighting for the entertainment stuff. Chris Herman was doing the lighting for the business making stuff. There was seven or 800 moving lights on that project. There is a ton of data management before you can even write the first cue. So the programmer needs to write all of their groups, all of their pallets, all of the focuses, make sure that simple things that happened.
Speaker 1 00:21:51 Like when you turn the wheel this way on the board, all the lights were the same orange. There's a, there's a lot of agnostic things. So we move into previous as rapidly as we can to validate all of that. And frankly, it goes to what we were saying before about not wanting to do stuff twice is if we can be in the 3d model and go, Hey, Lacey, actually, can you take that light and move it to sticks or hub trust down to the right, because it's not actually hitting a BA, but it certainly lightened the BA or spilling on the video screen or lighting the set piece or whatever, it's that, you know, that's, that's a really useful tool.
Speaker 0 00:22:26 Wow. That's awesome. I didn't realize you guys moved into the 3d space so quickly. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1 00:22:32 Yeah, yeah. And a lot of the time when you see us, when we sit down and we're like, all right, cute, cute, and go kind of stuff. We've got a lot of the housekeeping done at a time. And, and, and a tremendous amount of it is, is data management is, is, is working with, um, huge amounts of data. I mean, you know, all of us were the, you know, we were the kids who were sitting in the back of the math class, you know, flicking business and paper up people not paying any attention, Lacy that I'm not so sure cause Lacey's, uh, a bit of a math whiz, but now we're dealing with a huge amount of data and, and the previous model, because it has the real patchy, because it has the real show fire. We can go, okay, we've actually got the group of lights on this trust and the good blessing of this trust accidentally on the same address. And they'll be called here and now what we're moving the dial on the board and that lights moving in, that light's moving, that's not going to be optimal. And then we've done this, the same people up in boom lifts or climate trials to change addresses in lights, or even do it on DM over a remote network. Again, it's about putting the time where it makes a difference to the overall arc of the arc of the show.
Speaker 0 00:23:39 And you feel like you can be more creative now with having all of that stuff done beforehand, whereas like new skin, you know, we have three days to put it in that that doesn't include any time for you to actually sit down at a desk to program a single queue. So now you're walking in what, 90%, 85% of the way there, and then it's just refinement from there.
Speaker 1 00:24:04 Yeah. And I think that, well, certainly from a pragmatic standpoint, you know, it, it still needs the design team. And, and sometimes we do outside, you know, we did, we did a, uh, uh, a big project in the middle East, uh, earlier in the, uh, in the latter, in the latter part rather than 2019, where we did a lot of previous in the States before, before we went over to the UNESCO site in, in Riyadh, but like to use new skills as an example, we, that wasn't a term of creative work done. Um, but there was all of the pragmatic stuff was done. So when you sat down in his room with Chris Herman for the, uh, for the businesses aside, and I sat down with Dean, see, we've already just stopped with the creative side of programming. And, and, and I think it's easy to underestimate the demand that the size of current lighting systems put on programs.
Speaker 1 00:24:55 And, and frankly, I consider them a lot of the time. Co-designers certainly lighting directors more than programs because they're not just about mashes that part of the creative process. And I think if you can have a clear point where you say, okay, we're going to do all the pragmatic and all the practical stuff up to here, and now we're going to start doing creative. You, you know how it is as well. You, you, you have this bipolar nature to what you do, that there's the tactical and the creative. And if you can be all tactical, you're super efficient. And if you can be all creative, you're super efficient. But I think as beings, it's difficult for us. And I think it's mentally exhausting to keep flipping back and forth and, and that's, and so I think it's, it's not only respectful to our programmers directors go designers to have that boundary, but frankly, it's self serving because it's more efficient that I know when a programmer walks in on site.
Speaker 1 00:25:55 If we give them the resources ahead of time to be able to do all of their homework and the time to do all well, where can I have this discussion a lot with users? Cause I like pre production for the program. What's that all about? When I explain this and say, when we walk in and we're onsite, or when we go into the, into the suite, we stop the creative part. I want it to be all about grading. I don't want it to be all right. You're going to spend the morning doing deeply tactical patch stuff. And then at lunchtime, you're magnificent. You're going to transform into a butterfly of creativity. And after the guy's not there, hang on a minute. I just need to get my head in order. Now, obviously there's shows we have to do, but if we can avoid that and give people a space to deliver their best work in the way that works best for them, then that's a win for all of us. So
Speaker 0 00:26:44 What, uh, so managing that up to that process, are there any other software solutions you guys use Vectorworks previous, anything else that you guys used heavily to?
Speaker 1 00:26:55 Yeah. People in the lighting end of things will, will, will be very familiar with a remarkable piece of software called light, right? Which, which is designed by John McClellan, who is, who is one of the loveliest people you could ever hope to meet. And, and, and frankly, one of those unsung heroes of the production industry, um, John started light bright, really to support, um, uh, Broadway and to, and, and, um, he's a new Yorker and, and deeply vested in the Broadway theater market. But what it is is it's basically a relationship based database that lets you manage the huge amounts of beta that you have for, for lighting fixtures, everything from creating pool lists to go into the shop to patch lists, to, um, uh, uh, patch. We spoke to the console side, that side of things and paperwork and documentation for the, for the lighting crew to help them stay on top of this huge amount of data.
Speaker 1 00:27:54 And, and, and, um, Sharma's has committed several lifetimes to, and, and it really is one of those great situations, which I love. It's one of the things I love Jordan. This is where we're a business that embraces the small innovator and the small entrepreneur in ways that others do, because there are these people that have these really amazing niches coming up with this software where other people could write light. Right. But it's hard to imagine how it could be bad now, and everybody loves John. So it's, so if I can give money to a giant faceless, so I've work on glomerate or I can give it to my friend, John McKernan, I'm going to give it to John McKernan a hundred times and light right work seamlessly by directionally with Vectorworks. So you can put information in Vectorworks improv to your light, right document if you've had an error in your light right document and put it in and fix it in the light right document, it can be set up so that it can bi-directionally feed back into the Vectorworks, um, uh, software and update both directionally, but that's a huge kind of information management tool for us.
Speaker 1 00:29:09 I love that <inaudible> that that is getting into the business. Um, John does great, uh, student access and there's a ton of, uh, of really good, uh, online training for that. I think this is a great opportunity for, for those of us that have been in the business X years, shall we say 30 for round numbers? And those are people that have been in the business for 30 months to be improving ourselves. And we're spending a lot of time finding resources for people learning light, right. Is a great to do. If you're getting started in the business, it will change your life.
Speaker 0 00:29:45 Yeah, that's awesome. So we manage projects, we create it, we come up with all this paperwork, we do all this stuff, and then suddenly, boom, we hop on a plane. We're flying to the gig, wherever that happens to be. What are the things that you travel with as a designer? What are the, what like the, the key things that you travel with?
Speaker 1 00:30:05 Yeah. I think the things that some of the things that we do that I do as is as a designer over, um, and, and it's interesting the way the, um, the, the, the, we were sort of a light switch, a bit of an early adopter of some of this is things that make people's lives more comfortable. Uh, and I mean this in really small ways, personally, I'm sitting down now, so I'm not pacing, but I'm standing desk. So I have, um, at upstaging and Vos and a few other partners that we work with, the very desk standup events, cause I like to stand up a more productive standing up. Um, we were early adopters of the notion of comfy chairs, but those people that like to, to sit, not sounding ridiculous, but 25 years ago, nobody was bringing chairs on onsite. And we had programmers that were sitting in ballroom jazz.
Speaker 1 00:30:54 And I'm like, this is insane. I've got somebody who gets up like a 95 year old man, because they're sitting in a boardroom chair for 16 or 18 hours a day for five days on online. Ouch got somebody going to office Depot and buy some chairs, it's money well-spent they access the tea and coffee. And you've seen our cases that we work with vendors to make sure our onsite. So, so myself, I, I travel relatively light. I'm a Mac guy. So it's my back book. It's a, um, it's, it's a Mac book. It's making sure my computer is charged. It's having a couple of batteries from my phone. Um, I'm a big fan of, um, of, of some of this change. My world is a single Lumo, which is a liberal light sensor, which plugs into your iPhone, which is incredibly accurate. Um, we want around here somewhere, I don't see one, I'm going to use this as a standard. This is the nose code from a satisfied model, but it's about this kind of size. And obviously it plugs into your iPhone and make your iPhone into a really,
Speaker 0 00:32:02 It just pops in right there
Speaker 1 00:32:06 And turns it into a really accurate, uh, uh, luminosity and color temperature meter. And they're working on a CRI version of it. And I've annoyingly a B that with my $2,500 all singing, all dancing, psychotic meter and, and it's within fractions of a percent. And so that's great. Something I can talk in my pocket. Um, we try to keep our information, um, uh, as, as fluid and flexible as possible. And we print a lot of our paperwork out, cause we still do need printed documents on this, uh, on this paper called Tetra paper, which is made from recycled water bottles, which is a laser printable paper that you can drive with, um, dry erase markers and is near indescribable. You can spell the drink on it. You can put it on the floor and step on it and you can wipe it clean. So, so those are some of the things that, that we use to, to make sure that the, the we are as individuals and as, um, and as professionals equipped.
Speaker 0 00:33:10 And the other
Speaker 1 00:33:12 Thing that I try to do, and that I think is my obligation. And I think this is again, a commonality with, um, with, with the light switch team is, come on site with a positive frame of mind, prepared to work with your colleagues in other departments, and frankly, haven't done it.
Speaker 0 00:33:29 Um, yeah, we, we get paid a lot of money. We have a great job.
Speaker 1 00:33:34 We'll cover the shelf. Well, uh, you know, it beggars belief, the number of times I'll get into a show for a meeting with people. And it's super clear. I haven't looked at any of the paperwork, um, read the paperwork, do your homework be prepared. Certainly when I sit down with a program and the last thing I want to be doing is gun. Uh, who's the client, what's that brand color again, <inaudible> they make the stewards of their brands. We should know the brands when you're working for a band, you should know the music. When you're working for a corporate client, you should at least have looked at their Wikipedia page. You should at least figure it out. What makes them tick? You should know who the CEO is. And I mean that, so that when he walks in the room and increasingly,
Speaker 0 00:34:19 Um,
Speaker 1 00:34:21 You know, when I got started, you'd be able to tell the C suite people, uh, they would walk in with a whole bunch of handlers. You know, they'd be invariably in assumed they would be super annoyed about being then they would, uh, come in with a whole bunch of, of admin assistants. And you'd know that was the case. The guy that sits down next to you at the console in a pair of jeans and a sweatshirt, and starts chatting about what you're doing, could well be the CEO and on several occasions with us has been, um, and you know, and, and certainly is what we do.
Speaker 0 00:34:52 Um, you know,
Speaker 1 00:34:54 Then a lot of them are they're our age and they've grown up going to rock shows and they love the technology and they love the gear. So learn a little about your client. Look on their website, look at their commercials, look at their YouTube channel, look at their social media, see the way they speak. What's important to them because that's what they're charging us to do is amplify their voice. You know, we're back to thinking about telling stories, you know, the person in row, triple Zed at the back of the balcony, they're not getting a physical connection with the presenter on stage. That's our job. Our job is to give back to nature. And the only way we can help them spread their voice through the whole room is if we understand what they're trying to say.
Speaker 0 00:35:33 Yeah. That's awesome. So all of that, that's a great point. A little bit of research. I mean, 10 minutes of a Google search of, you know, Cisco CEO, boom photo.
Speaker 1 00:35:45 Yeah. They have a Wikipedia page. Yeah,
Speaker 0 00:35:48 Exactly. Um, so what are the top three things that you need on every single show you do? Like every single one, if I don't have these three things, like it'll be hard.
Speaker 1 00:36:01 Okay. So define that. Are we talking about from a fee, from an equipment? Anything,
Speaker 0 00:36:06 It could be coffee, it could be, you know, your, your, your, okay.
Speaker 1 00:36:11 But I'm a guy. So I got to have my water bottle. Um, uh, I I'm, because I spent a lot of time, um, uh, dealing with the computer. An external keyboard is a, is a, is a game changer for me. Um, and then, uh, frankly, um, a little bit of physical space, I'm a bigger guy. I've got shoulders, you know, and just some room to set up is, is important to me. I personally, don't like to need crank. So if I've got, I've got my water, I've got an external keyboard and I got some elbow room. I'm, I'm a happy there.
Speaker 0 00:36:46 I discovered the magic of an external keyboard, put my laptop up on a little, you know, slightly elevated stance. I'm not looking down on it. You're feeling, you know, you can feel like you're up, you know, your back is straight. You're not feeling all hunched over shoulders.
Speaker 1 00:37:00 Good posture. Yes, yes. Um, yeah. And then now you can use sidecar on Macs, but for a long time as user and duet to you to be able to use your iPad as an external screen, you know, we were talking about sidecar, Sarcos baked into Catalina. Now that any device, I mean, you can do it with an iPhone. I don't know why you'd want to, but any, um, Apple device will work as an external monitor with a Catalina based, uh, uh, Mac book. So, so certainly when you're dealing with something like Vectorworks, which has eight bazillion menus, or you're in that point where you're going from back to Webster light, right. Or from the lighting budget to the gear list or any of this to have a little bit more virtual elbow room, as well as physical duet works really well. You plug in your, um, your Apple device into your laptop with a Thunderbolt cable and you use with any, you open up a Sigler and your system preferences, and you're off to the races. I can't imagine there isn't the same thing for windows machines too. So that's, that's super helpful as well.
Speaker 0 00:38:04 So I guess that's a good reason for me to get off high Sierra.
Speaker 1 00:38:09 It is a region that in dark mode, everybody loves dark mode, certainly for what we do sitting in dark rooms. And I remember, um, uh, when I got my eyes tested a few years ago and I was talking to, to the ophthalmologist, then she's like, describe a typical day. And I'm like, okay, well, um, spent a lot of time either if I'm in the office working on computers, or if I'm on site looking at monitors, which are closed and a stage, which is usually brightly lit, that's the other end of the room. And she's like, Oh, your eyes hurt at the end of the day. Yeah. There's a medical description for that. I'm like, Oh, there is. She said, yeah, it's duh. Um, so, so keeping your monitor, um, brightness level as low as you can. I personally find a real, hopefully it reduces ice to me keeping the ambient light around me when I'm in a dark space, as well as possible a I don't get up and fall over something cause I can't see it, but it also helps, helps reduce ice street.
Speaker 0 00:39:05 Awesome. Love that. So what are the things that you like or what is like the one thing you like about your job designer, lighting designer, the most? What do you like the most about what you do?
Speaker 1 00:39:18 Oh, ha hands down. Jordan is collaboration, it's collaboration. And the more than the sum of the parts, um, it's things like when we all get together for a tech meeting and we we've got, um, we're trying to put a, uh, 10 pounds of gear in a, in a, in a five pound size venue, or we've got challenges. Like we have our new skin where there was some pragmatic issues that we have to deal with both from a planning standpoint and then execution wise on site because of some unforeseen course corrections, when you get that sense that everybody is pulling together and everybody is focused on finding a solution. And there is no such thing as a bad place for a good idea. And everybody's thoughts are welcome. It. Um, it amazes me that people are taking a bank when they're not from my department and they come up to me and tell me something that I should know that I would react in any way other than, Oh, Holy shit.
Speaker 1 00:40:17 Thanks man. Hey, I was just up in the balcony and that light was in my eyes or the fixture that you've got that you can't see is pointing in the wrong direction. Or I think you're going to set that piece of scenery on fire with that Sharpie. Um, or, Hey, I was just watching this. And did you think about trying this because a lot of the time I'm going to go, I had no idea or no, that's a great idea or show let's try it because you knows. So everybody feeling that the, um, that their, that their creative work, where can we come in is a great example of this. Um, um, because I, I, Tom, and, and several of the other audio designers that I mentioned too, I can go to them and say, look, there's certainly with music stuff. There's a cue in here that is motivating something that's happening visually.
Speaker 1 00:41:01 And I can't hear it. And if I got here, the lights are going to do this and the audience is going to go, well, that was weird. Why did that just happen? Can you give that a look at fast and I'll go back and cheer the show, of course, um, that collaborative team-based thing. When you come to me and say, Hey, have you thought about trying this? And it's like, Oh, that's an awesome idea. Or if you re, if we rig it this way, I can give you those lights and positions and we can save the production, some money, uh, all of that stuff. I'm a collaborator at heart. That's why I founded 27 years ago. A design, not just being a solid designer, cause I'd love to collaborate. I think I find that that, that collaborative energy, a really powerful fuel.
Speaker 0 00:41:41 I love that. What about the least? What's the, what's your least favorite thing about what you do and you can't say nothing,
Speaker 1 00:41:48 Right? Not doing gigs, right? Yeah. I had, I didn't have, at least what's my least favorite. Um, my least favorite is being really clear on what the goals are for a project and missing. Um, I, we, we have always tried at Lightswitch and this is going to sound like a strange expression, but we've always made it, uh, trying to make it a safe place to fail. Because from a creative standpoint, people will always do that best work. If they feel that there is room for them to fail in a safe place where people will pick them up. So we spend a lot of time talking about our failures because there's a lot to learn from that the, the, the, our client's challenges to do is be at a hundred percent. And, and that means that we have to do that. And safety is an 85%.
Speaker 1 00:42:40 And in any realm of creativity, um, all the interesting stuff happens around the edges, whether it's music or dance or art or drama or writing or anything, all of the interesting stuff is the outlines. The outliers have to be prepared to fail. So we have to be prepared to fail. So when a client comes to us and says, um, the thing you're pitching, if you don't have, before we go, no, is it going to work well? We certainly hope so, but, but sometimes it doesn't and, and you and I have shared some of those experiences and that yeah. And regardless of whether it's apparent to the audience or not there, and there are a few clients of ours that really embrace that same, um, that same good style, a lot of our tech clients, because they're on the cutting edge of what they're doing from a technology standpoint, there's, there's a certain networking plan that we have, who is all was prepared to push and try new things, because otherwise you'd just end up with a bunch of pipe and drape in a room lit mostly in blue and somebody on stage giving a variant of the speech last year, that to move the needle for experiences, um, you need, you need a producer that is prepared to embrace that and go to the client and say, we're going to try something bold.
Speaker 1 00:43:56 Sometimes that doesn't work. That's my least favorite thing when you, God damn it. I was so sure that it was going to be amazing. I was so sure that was going to work and it did. And, and the smart thing to do, even though it's hard, or those times is the gov, okay. Dust myself off. One of my big boy pants, go find the client, say, sorry, it was a swinging a mess, um, and learn from why it didn't work and refocus and regroup and reframe
Speaker 0 00:44:25 That's. I'd love that. And th that actually everything you just said may answer this next question, which is, if somebody wants to become a designer, they see, you know, they're just coming into the lighting field or they see what they, they see this huge stage show, rock, show, something like I want to design that or something like that. What should they be doing now to be able to eventually get there, to set themselves up for that success eventually?
Speaker 1 00:44:53 Um, I think the best way to answer that is probably to talk about what we look for in people we hire that come into our company. And that's, uh, I think work on getting really clear about what your particular style is. Um, eh, and do that in any way that you're comfortable with rip and poles from magazines, do your own Pinterest page, um, start a blog, whatever methodology works for you, but get really clear and be able to tell people what your aesthetic is. The most interesting resumes that we get are the ones that have not paid your page, your page of line item stuff, but, uh, interesting, ideally amusing and entertaining, but also we get a really strong sense about what makes that person tick. We want to understand what people's own particular, uh, the gestalt is and what that creativity is. And, and I think, um, I, I think it was miles Davis that said that you can't play like anybody until you can play like yourself.
Speaker 1 00:46:00 And I think that's really important for people in the creative field. Not everybody works with everybody else because, because what we do is ultimately subjective. Um, and I work with the clients that I work with because they like what I do in my style. My colleagues work with clients because they like their style. And so having a defined sense of what is your style, I think also helps you have a base, so you can go, all right, my smiles here, my client styles here, I know where those two are. So now I can match them, pass between them. Um, so you're a musician as well. I'm sure you have a style that you play, that you like to play, that you've spent a long time working on financing. I think the same with any creative venture get really comfortable with your own style. And then you can improvise from there. Once you've got a base, once you've got a fundamental knowledge of what your own ethos and aesthetic is, you can riff on that as much as you want.
Speaker 0 00:46:56 That's awesome. I love that. So last question, two things that somebody can do, they just finished a gig today. All right. It was a good gig, but they want to be better tomorrow. What are two things that they could be thinking about to be better tomorrow so that their next gig is better than their last one?
Speaker 1 00:47:16 I would say, be your own worst pragmatic critic. And what I mean by that is not just, God sucks. That's all ads and I'm crap at this, and they're never going to get me wet. Look at it, to celebrate both your, your challenges and your victories and write them down. Stop the love them, get really clear what worked well and what didn't work well in a way that's, there's this notion of, of, of conscious practice that most professional musicians get good because they do conscious practices. They're really good at understanding what they, what they need to work on, but they're also really good at understanding what they do well. So they don't spend time. We learning the stuff that they already know. So get really clear about what works and what didn't and why, and then document it. It's it, it sounds basic, but we talk to people all the time and we ask them about shows and they've got like six blurry iPhone photos.
Speaker 1 00:48:09 If, if your hands are full, get somebody else to take photos. You don't necessarily need to put them on a website or post them on Facebook or whatever. But especially when you're starting in your career, I wish I had much better documentation of the early part of my career, because certainly what I do hiring creatives is I want to see what the arc looks like. And if I've only got this bit in the art, not this bit, I can't extrapolate where that person is going and their through line. And I think that's the same for us from self analysis is, is get really clear about what worked, what didn't and document it.
Speaker 0 00:48:42 That's awesome. Cause I do the same thing. I'll document something and then I'll have an idea two years later and I'll be like, Oh, I remember that one thing that, that, you know, John Featherstone did on that show. I'd love to do something just like that on this side.
Speaker 1 00:48:56 Yeah. And my friend, uh, what's the word? I think it's attributed to Picasso, but intelligence, borrows, but genius steals.
Speaker 0 00:49:03 That's right. Awesome. Well, Hey John, thank you so much for taking your time today. I know it's precious. We appreciate it.
Speaker 1 00:49:12 It's all good.
Speaker 0 00:49:13 I appreciate it. And hopefully we can not do some more conversations down the road, talking about other exciting things and where the industry's going, coming out of, uh, this very challenging time.
Speaker 1 00:49:22 I will greatly enjoy that. And good luck to everybody. That's listening this too. Shall pass. I promise. Yes.
Speaker 0 00:49:27 Well, we're looking forward to what's on the other side. I can tell you that. Thanks John. Thanks, John. Thank you so much for joining us today. I am so excited and so humbled that you would choose to take just a little bit of your time to join us on this podcast and listen in on some of the great conversations that we're having. I hope that your next gig is better than your last, because ultimately that is all that matters to me. I want to make sure that you are able to do better events, better shows better tours than you did yesterday. All because you gained valuable information and valuable knowledge from what we discussed here today. You know, I think that every single day we are looking to get better. And that is exactly where I want us to be. Now, the value that we bring to you is directly tied to each and every one of you, we could sit here and talk all day long about all the stuff we do, all the great events and everything like that.
Speaker 0 00:50:25 But if we're not giving you the value that want, there's no way that this is going to be good for you. And ultimately who cares, who I talk to if you're not getting value. So please let me know gig
[email protected]. You can reach out to me. I'll make sure to read every single email, because I know that it's valuable to you to be heard. And I want you to share your ideas, your thoughts, who do you want to have on the podcast? Who do you want to share? What are things you want to learn? What are things you want to grow in so that we can get better at creating live events, people connect in person and each and every one of us facilitates that process in our own small way. I'm excited for what the future holds. I'm excited for, where we're going and know that there are great things ahead of us. And they're not just behind us. Have a great rest of your day and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 3 00:51:16 <inaudible>.
