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Speaker 1 00:01:29 <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:01:44 Welcome back everybody. This is Jordan Goodfellow gig. Ready? We're excited to be here today. We've got the man, the myth, the legend, Kevin tater, uh, audio engineer, monitor engineer, specifically rock star in his own. Right. Tater. Thanks for being here today. Appreciate having ya. Thank you for having me. Tater audio is a company I was introduced to a long time ago. Um, actually when I first started with Lincoln park back in 2010, um, you've mixed a lot of the heavy metal greats, uh, over the years. What, um, what got you into the world of monitor engineering and, um, talking about, you know, what drew you to that versus other parts of the audio, audio, audio world.
Speaker 2 00:02:30 Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, I don't think I was originally drawn to the monitor position. I was drawn to the, uh, just the sound and PA rental business and, you know, I landed, it monitors a lot during that time. And you know, I teamed up with another guy doing local gigs around Detroit and he always kind of did front of house and threw me back on the monitors. That's kind of where I learned, you know? So, um, I kind of, in the end, as I started getting bigger, better gigs, I found more satisfaction and mix mixing the band. You kind of knew right where you stood, um, you know, right at the end of the performance or during it, there was no, you know, anything with an audience complaining or anything. It was just them instant gratification. You knew what happened that night and it was over and onto the next night. So I kind of just stuck it out there. And, you know, I think in the long run it was a good move because I think really, um, I don't know now, but when I, when I've definitely first started, there was we're monitor engineers and the ones that wanted and wanted to go to front house. And as soon as they got an opportunity, they did. So there was always tons of work for a monitor engineer. So, um, I just kind of stayed there. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:03:42 A hundred percent the, uh, actually a monitoring, another monitor engineer. I know who loved to do monitors, always told me, monitor engineers, like the easiest gig, because you don't have to please yourself. You just have to please someone else.
Speaker 2 00:03:53 Yeah, that is true. But sometimes that's hard to do, maybe easy for him, but sometimes it's hard to do. And sometimes you have to mix something that you personally don't like, you're, you're delivering what he wants or she wants, and you don't necessarily like that mix, but you got to sit there and all night and, uh, try to enjoy it. So sometimes it can be tough.
Speaker 0 00:04:15 True. Very true. How do you see your role as it fits? I mean, monitor engineer, your job is to make sure the band can hear and give the very best performance. But overall, when you look at the full audio team, you've got your, you know, your systems engineers, you've got your front of house, you've got your stage patch, you've got all the guys that kind of w H where do you fit cohesively into that team? Because ultimately you're going to play other roles beyond just boom. I mix the band and, and go,
Speaker 2 00:04:42 Yeah. Uh, it depends what band you're working with. What size, you know, what size tour you're on? You know, I did, uh, uh, speaking Lincoln park, uh, God me was two years ago now. Um, you know, I did a, uh, Mike Shinoda solo tour and there was no crew was me and the front of house guy. And that was the whole audio team where, you know, on the current tour I'm doing now iron maiden, you know what I mean, front of house to front house assistance, to monitor engineers, a stage patch guy, and then, uh, to, um, PA tech. So, um, but you know, I I'm there to work. So I, in the, in, when I in a big tour like that, I'll go in early. I don't mind sort and PA out stage left stage, right. Uh, help them try to hang at least a few cabinets till my stuff comes in.
Speaker 2 00:05:30 Then my stuff comes in. I try to sort it out and get it ready. And everything has to fall into a time-space of when the carpenters are done and the rigors are done and everybody has their own little time slots to fit in. And you gotta be ready for that. And, um, you know, just try to try to get the job done the best I can as a, as a team, uh, you know, audio is as a team and then not only as the team, but as the whole crew working as one and go from awesome.
Speaker 0 00:05:58 I love it. That's great. I've noticed, I always noticed you are so particular, like, boom, everything fit into this one. All right. This is the way it comes in. This is the way it goes out. It's like just nice sliced bread.
Speaker 2 00:06:10 I've just, I've just always found being a neat, tidy, consistent, um, and doing the same thing. Repetitiveness just, it cuts down on a lot of mistakes. If you can do that, you know, if you're just winging it every day, you're going to forget stuff and stuff's going to be different. And you know, to me, I've always found the bands. Don't like it different. They want it to sound the exact same way every night in their ears or in their, in their wedges. And other people want the cable runs the same way every day for their jobs. It's just, if you keep it neat, clean and consistent, uh, I just, I just think it's, it's worked for me.
Speaker 0 00:06:44 Totally. Um, I, I love the clean, in fact, I think that there were a couple of times I'd like walk through monitor world and like, I don't know, you making sure that all the boys are keeping the floors clean and keeping people from leaving crap around. And it's great. I love the, the aspect of that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:07:03 We're not savages, you know, this audio guys aren't savages all the time. We like to like to have a nice work area and I, and I especially do so. Um, I just think it lends itself to, to part of the job and part of the, especially the monitor job.
Speaker 0 00:07:17 Yeah. So how we're not savages, how critical is that relationship between you and the front of house engineer as it goes to working with the band, doing the show, are you guys very siloed or is there, you know, there's a lot of Symbi symbionts if you will, that has to come between the two of you. Well, yeah,
Speaker 2 00:07:38 Yeah. I mean, there has to be, um, there's a definite order in the day. And especially within the audio of, uh, the front house guy has to tune the PA and, and there's certain things you do, as you know, I've worked with, uh, Ken, <inaudible> almost 18 years now, and we've done many, many bands together and, and we don't have to talk much anymore. I know what he's going to do. I know when he's almost done tuning and when he's through line checks, we don't have to, you know, you've just, you've been together so long, you know, you know, what's going on, but you know, in the last few years, I've, I I've worked with so many great front of house guys. Um, you usually click pretty quick, you know, Mike Faneuil guy hadn't worked with before, did the Mike Shinoda solo tour. Fantastic guy, great engineer. Um, you know, and we just, we got along. Great. So it was, uh, it was really good. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:08:26 How does that, how does, or how do you see the, the, you know, the main PA when it comes on and you've got the front of house guy, you know, you're doing a show, does that tend to impact the artist, um, significantly, or are you able to mix and create an experience on stage for the artist where it doesn't really create as much of an impact and they're able to really be present there? Well,
Speaker 2 00:08:56 That, that, once again, it kind of goes lens to yourself, to your last question about working with the front of house guy and knowing how they mix and all that stuff. Because to me, I've always worked is you have to incorporate the front of house sound into your monitor and stage sound, even with the juniors. You do. Um, that's a big thing is knowing what's going on out front, knowing what's kind of coming back from the PA system and consistency of the, um, the front of house systems engineer, and hanging that system the same every day, keeping that consistent helps me stay consistent. And you have to have that relationship with, with not only the front house mixer, but also the systems engineer tuning that PA to get the consistency on stage, because, you know, we, we can make it sound one way when that PA's not on, but when you turn that PA on it, it's, it's, it's, it's 90 degrees different.
Speaker 2 00:09:45 So you have to work within the parameters. The PA's always are hopefully always going to be on while the show is going on. You know, that's something you strive for. So, you know, I see a lot of guys, Oh, mute the PA, I got to do this, got to do that, mute the PA Bubba. I don't ever say that I try to work and do my stuff while the PA's on and pooches tuning, because it's going to be on during the show. And, and I always think when you listen to my monitors, at least my conventional monitors and in some of my inner stuff, it probably sounds a little thin because I know as soon as he kicks on, it's going to fill in a lot of the stuff that's missing and I don't need to add it in there. Huh.
Speaker 0 00:10:23 Do you use, um, when you're running through your monitor tests, pooches out front, do you use virtual playback, just like pooch does in, in, in the monitor world side of things,
Speaker 2 00:10:32 We've incorporated it now where I'm an iron maiden. We have, you know, SD or Q seven, uh, quantum seven in front of house. DiGiCo quantum seven, uh, at monitors, which I run and I do the whole band minus the bass player and my partner in crime up there on, on stage Steve Gonzo Smith. He does monitors for the bass player. So we have virtual playback when pooch runs it, it's coming to my console and to Gonzo's console. So we can turn on the stage.
Speaker 0 00:11:03 Huh. Very cool. Um, and then, so you're listening. I mean, so really, it's almost like being on being at the show without the band
Speaker 2 00:11:11 Other than the backline roar and yeah, it's, it's, it's pretty close. And if we can get the backline guys to play along, it's real close.
Speaker 0 00:11:17 Do you ever have any, I'm bringing up the second monitor engineer. I know another band that did the same thing a little bit in that the lead singer had his own monitor engineer and then the rest of the band had, uh, their thing. Um, how does that relationship work between you and Steve? And I mean, is it, is it Steve's like pretty good with whatever or are there some critical things you guys have to keep an eye out for?
Speaker 2 00:11:40 No. Th th I tell you what, with Gonzo with Steve, he, he does Steve, the bass player. Steve does Steve. Uh, he does Steve Harris, the bass player mixes his conventional wedges and some side fills for him. And, um, the thing with Gonzo, it really helps Gonzo used to mix the whole band for years. So he was instrumental in my success when I was first started in new with iron maiden, just coming in, telling me about the guys in the mixes. And if stuff was wrong, he'd say, now let's try this. So I really keyed off Gonzo, but when we're mixing the show, you know, it's, it's each of us going at it and doing that kind of stuff. And, and we don't have much communication, but we do communicate, we have to noise stuff at the same time. So the one tech isn't running around doing different stuff. And, um, you know, Gonzo's instrumental on the, on the load out because if he wasn't there, I I'd have to get cases and stuff. He's, he's down there wrangling that stuff on the floor and I'm doing it up on stage and, and, um, you'd have to ask him, but I think we were quite a good team.
Speaker 0 00:12:44 That's great. No, that's awesome. Um, it's not very often that you have to monitor engineers on a job. And so, um, understanding that relationship, the, um, give me a quick picture of what your show looks, you know, looks like poop when pooch and I talked, we were talking about the fact that, you know, there's one way you manage the day load in load out all that happens. And then you get to the show and that's like this, you know, that's that little slice of time. That's just different. And you know, what does that look like from a monitor standpoint? I mean, even down into, you know, are there specific times where you're, PFL in and listening to certain things because of other things happening that sort of stuff?
Speaker 2 00:13:25 Well, I'm always, you know, I've the bands I work for and, and, you know, I'm, I'm mainly in the hard rock, heavy metal business. Um, the bands I've been doing for like the last got almost 20 years now, I've been mainly in that vein of music. Um, I don't really have just one, like an artist in a band situation. So there's a main artist let's say like, you know, say Jennifer Lopez, and then she has a band, right? Yeah. Where you have to focus on her all night and then just kind of worry about the band secondary, where I don't have that luxury a lot. I work for, if there's five rock stars in the band, I got five principals up there. You know what I mean? If there's six, seven, there's that many principals up there that I have to pretend that each one of those guys is my a hundred percent focus all night long.
Speaker 2 00:14:10 And since I have to do that, I'm bouncing between all those mixes constantly, you know, all night long checking in on them. And I, and I normally I stay on the lead singer. Um, but anytime I have to give a cue to somebody or something like that, I'm always on there mixed delivering the queue to be sure I hit it right. Then bouncing back and forth. But I I'm bouncing between everybody all night to give them a hundred percent attention. Yeah. Not only my mixing, but, but my visuals, you know, I'm always a big proponent, um, of you gotta be, you can't be buried in the desk. You've got to know your desk. Yeah. You've gotta be looking out there if you're looking out there and paying attention to me that that is, uh, that is one of the biggest things that I see people not doing. They're buried in the desk, the band needs something. You're not seeing them. And then they lose confidence. So you gotta be, you gotta be heads up and eyes, eyes on the money out there.
Speaker 0 00:15:02 I I'm with you. In fact, I don't know if I ever, I don't think I ever watched you or saw you look down at your desk ever anytime I would look at monitor world. I mean like hands flying over the desk, kit and buttons and stuff at your eyes are, I mean, that was right on the money. Yeah. That I, well, the guy that pays the bills, you got to keep your eye on them. Right.
Speaker 2 00:15:22 That's right. Um, when you're,
Speaker 0 00:15:26 So the show you're, you know, you're working through everything. What, what are some things that can kind of come out of left field when you're as a monitor engineer, you know, same show every single night. Um, are there, is there ever a time where stuff could just come out that you're not expecting or is it all pretty much boom, boom, boom. All the time.
Speaker 2 00:15:47 Um, yeah, there's always something that can come unexpectedly and hopefully it's in that room. You know, we set up so many, so many spares and so many things just to switch over it, the, you know, the push of a button. So anything like that, um, we're, we're ready for it. You know, spare microphone, spare wireless sparing in ear packs barriers between, between myself Gonzo and iron maiden and the backline texts. We're ready for it. And we have a pretty elaborate, uh, talk-back system to know if something's going on or someone's feeling uncomfortable or something like that. And we can usually knock on wood. We can assess it out pretty, pretty quick, you know, and also I worked for a lot of legacy bands and they've been around the block. They've played these venues way more than once, and they can tell you if they're good or bad. So if they're bad, they know they're already in their head. You, you know, you manage their expectations, but they've already done that themselves. If they've been around for a while. And once, once that happened, they know those rooms aren't any good and I can't make a change. So, um, th they're usually pretty good like that. Okay.
Speaker 0 00:16:48 Okay. Very nice. Um, I'm going to come back to managing expectations in a second, because that's a really good one to talk about, but I want to ask you from, from a show standpoint, um, as a monitor engineer, you, is there a lot of cues that you're, you know, boom, as you go through the night, I mean, you're, you know, moving unmuting, going through stuff, scenes and other things, or is it, what kind of movement does that have?
Speaker 2 00:17:11 We're going to band even a band that I'd say kinda is a throw and go bang, put it up in there. And, and, you know, you're set for the night. As long as, you know, little tweaks here up and down. I can't hear the guitar, bring it a bit. I set up scenes for every song, uh, and with, with any ears. And even with wedges, there's, there's, cusal all night long for different people, you know, guitars up and down this up and down, vocals down vocals on and offs. There there's cues all night that are programmed in there. Okay. And I have a scene for every song. I don't, I don't do multiple scenes in a song unless it's something rare. Uh, but usually for a tour I stick with one or song and then anything in that song. Uh, I usually mix it manually.
Speaker 0 00:17:57 Okay. Very nice. Um, I was always keeps my head in the game. Totally. No, I was always very curious about that because everybody has their own philosophy on scenes or not. And especially when, I mean, I remember back in the, when the PM five D RH and things like that came on, people were really like, you know, moving from an analog desk, into the digital world, everybody was really kind of iffy about, Oh, you know, what's going to happen if I, if I go to another scene and suddenly this thing was muted when this was, you know, when it wasn't. And I mean, I'm sure that's happened to you before where something accidentally gets muted in a scene or something, and you trying to figure it out
Speaker 2 00:18:36 Happen. It has happened. But I learned a way to build my scenes where that doesn't happen. It's not, it doesn't, uh, you know, come up and bite me because I have a way of doing it now that automatically checks itself when I re go back through it and stuff. So, uh, I've learned a way that, that works for me so that if I just recheck it at the end, that I know I'm usually pretty good.
Speaker 0 00:18:57 That's awesome. Um, managing expectations, maybe the one thing that you do more than anything as a monitor engineer with working with those who perform day in and day out, um, when you first approach an artist like for the first time. So when you went to iron maiden, you never worked with them before. Um, you know, they have, they have an, a level of expectation. I mean, they are at the top of their game. They are the best at their craft that are filling stadium after stadium, after stadium. Um, what kind of expectations are you managing with them as you're mixing monitors, working to give them the very best, but at the same time, um, you know, helping them to understand, you know, in certain places there are limitations, there are things that, that can or have to happen. What do you do as you work through that?
Speaker 2 00:19:48 Well, with them, they've been around long enough, those each, each of them, all of them know exactly what they want. And, um, you have to deliver that. You got to give them exactly what they want. Um, and you know, Bruce, the singer, he's so intelligent, he's so smart. Um, he knows not only like how his body feels from, from his stomach to what comes out, how it sounds. He, he listens in many different ways. He's not on an ear as he's all he's on wedges and side fills. And he knows where to go when he needs to hear certain parts, he knows where to go when he doesn't want to hear certain parts. And he, he, he feels vibrations through his legs, stepping on certain monitors that he wants to hear. He knows what's coming back at him. Uh, he's just so smart and intelligent that way.
Speaker 2 00:20:38 Um, he knows exactly what he wants and he's going to describe what he wants and tell you that, uh, and same with the other guys, you know, they, they know cues, they know what they want. They know when they're getting 'em. And, um, luckily I jumped in there and Gonzo really helped me out. We do long rehearsals, which is nice. And of course, we're, we're in a small space when we're doing band rehearsals and then we move into an arena and we do a couple arena days and then first week might be a little tough. And then we get through that. And then it's, it's usually pretty good.
Speaker 0 00:21:08 Do you find that their mixes ever change based on emotion or venue size or things like that at all?
Speaker 2 00:21:15 Um, the ear mixes, I will change them. They won't really ask for that. Um, and Bruce, uh, uh, just a little bit, we, we get into some rooms that are, have some bad delay issues and stuff like that. Uh, you know, the sports palace, like in Mexico city, econimic couple more, but, uh, we'll just, we'll just throw some timing stuff in there, some snare and some guitars around and some spots where he wants it, just, just to keep him on time. And, um, and then he's usually pretty good
Speaker 0 00:21:46 As in like, you'll, will you introduce delay into things in the monitor so that it's so like the slap back or something where it's hitting the wall or whatever that's coming back to him, or
Speaker 2 00:21:55 That's a little tough. He just wants to hear that the first direct hit, make sure you can hear that. So I'll put it up in there. If he got usually stuff, when he's away from the drums, they have a pretty big set. So spread the snare around and the bit of the guitar keeps him on yeah.
Speaker 0 00:22:08 Time and got it. Are there, um, is there ever a time where you try, you know, let's say, uh, an artist is boom, we want wedges, we love wedges. Are there ever times where you try and steer them towards any ears or help them understand why that would be a better choice in certain scenarios?
Speaker 2 00:22:25 Well, uh, I haven't really steered anybody in a while to wedges, uh, sorry.
Speaker 0 00:22:33 Yes. Away from wedges to India. Sorry. That's right.
Speaker 2 00:22:36 Even a way. Uh, the bands I do are, are normally still both for different reasons. Some guys still aren't on, I don't want to use yours. They've tried them and don't like them. I've had bad experiences. Uh, some guys want wedges and years. So, um, a lot of bands I still do ever. There's I still have wedges in here. A combination of both. I never, uh, even with Mike on his solo tour, I still have subs on the stage. And uh <inaudible> and then I have, I have for Mike, I have a, uh, kind of, uh, a roving wedge if we have a guest and they don't ha they didn't bring yours. I have a wedge for that. And I also use that same wedge for rehearsals when they come in and they don't quite have their ears in yet, or their packs on. And Michael, just walk up to the keyboard and start playing the keyboard. Like, can't hear it because it's in his ear as he doesn't have mine yet. So I have a little wedge that I just put it under Dolly underneath it. If someone's just noodling around, I push it to wherever they want and put, put something through it. So you can at least get started
Speaker 0 00:23:38 Comfortable if he's just messing around without having to put his ears on. That's a great idea. I love that idea called the little roving wedge. Yeah, no, it's, I it's, I wouldn't have thought of that, but being the professional that you are for 30 years, you were like, Hey, this is a pretty darn good idea. Yeah. Um, is there any, do you have any like good stories of success where like one artist just, they wanted, like, they, they needed to be on ears because wedges just weren't working, um, maybe a new artist or somebody who was trying to figure out what they were doing.
Speaker 2 00:24:10 God, his ears have been around. Uh, you know, I first funny thing is, is, I mean, the first time I ever used in ears was with a band called trickster. Okay. Uh, and I think it was 90, 1992. Wow. And they had Sony body packs. I cannot remember what the earbuds were, but they were some sort of generic earbuds. And we had a wireless system called Ambrose and it was actually a five watt radio station. And that was the first, that was the first my foray into mixing in ears. Wow. And that's how long it's been in. And usually when I get there, you know, the bands are already have already decided on what they want to do or not do now Lincoln park, when I started Dave, the bass player wasn't on here and he was know Dave, uh, all of a sudden we were in the middle of a tour.
Speaker 2 00:25:10 He's like, I want to use ears. Okay. So got someone out to mold them. I can't remember where we were called JH audio up, got him two sets, you know, main and a spare. Yeah. And they don't sound check, you know that. So, um, he comes to the gig and you know, they don't get there right before the gig. He goes out, let's try the in-ears tonight. Okay. So I had a mixed dialed up. Never said anything to me all night. Never took them out. Nothing. Kate gave me at the end of the night. Yeah. It's great. Keep that perfect. So, uh, and you know, he's used them ever since. That's awesome. The same with, um, with Brad Dell. So now he doesn't use ears. He uses the headphones. Yeah. And we got them, uh, these Peltier headphones and we custom installed a headphone speakers in the set of headphones.
Speaker 2 00:25:57 This set of mossy likes. Yeah. And now Brad doesn't want any sound in him. He just has a click track and different at different points in time. It's not always there. It's just for cues and keeping them on time and that's all programmed in and scenes and stuff. So, um, you know, with him and, and he took to it, you know? Yeah. That's what I want and no problems there. So they usually, when they're ready to go, I think they've done the little bit of homework on it or they've, they've been around it enough to know what it's like. So, um,
Speaker 0 00:26:33 I did not know that about Brad's headphones about Brad's headphones. I always thought they were just, he didn't want the noise. So he
Speaker 2 00:26:41 Just, they were at one point at one point, just a set of Peltre, um, gun muffs. Yeah. And he started to want some click track and some different things. So we, uh, I spent kind of a couple months of an, of a downtime and, um, found speakers to put in them and Mount them and custom Panem them. And, um, you know, make sure they looked right and felt right. And they weren't too close to his ears. They were set way back, a lot of trial and error and cables and all kind of on, you know, all kinds of stuff, cable links, and, uh, came up with something he liked. And we spent a lot of money, a buddy of mine who runs a, uh, drag race team. He sent me to their painter who paints their funny cars. And I had the headphones painted real nice. And of course, uh, cost a lot of money. And of course he just put the he'd be dazzled them. You couldn't see the paint. So that was the biggest issue in the end.
Speaker 0 00:27:40 Now were those, now you ran a cable, those, and then they ran to a standard pack. Yeah. Okay. All right. So they, they operate operated like any ears, but he basically used them as glorified click, track monitor and correct for the most part. Okay. Hey, if that works and it keeps him on time, then that's what matters sense.
Speaker 2 00:27:59 Once again, you know, all the speakers, the wedges and the side fills we had on stage were really only for Brad. Yeah. Everyone else was on ears and didn't really want the wedges as a backup or anything. So the side fills and the wedges were for really, for Brad to hear through the, his pelters. And that's what the wedges were for. Also got it. To get him a stage sound that he was comfortable with, for sure. What, by the way, he's got for people that don't know, Brad Delson guitar player from Lincoln park, he's got phenomenal hearing. Yeah. And even through all that, he hears every little thing. So,
Speaker 0 00:28:38 And he's paying attention and that's a good thing. Paying attention, that guy to his attention. Yeah. What, um, what's the toughest band that you've had to mix for? Like the, the toughest to please?
Speaker 2 00:28:51 Um, wow. That's a good, that's a good question. I don't know. You know, they're all kind of maybe tough at the beginning or tough, you know, until you learn what they want. Um, the tough thing for me is usually like, uh, especially on Lincoln park, they would do these new album cycles and they would, they would change totally change directions and sounds and, uh, all that kind of stuff. So it'd be like, you know, at one point we were up to like 120 inputs, you know? So it was really figuring out the new songs and what people wanted to hear in those new songs and, and all that kind of stuff, which was, wasn't tough until you got the information. And once you got the information easy to deliver, but you know, those guys don't like to come in and say, Hey, guitar up guitar down.
Speaker 2 00:29:43 They just want to, they come in from a, you know, a year off. And I, you know, I asked them, Hey Mike, can we run a song? Oh, we don't need to run a song first. We're good. Yeah. You're I know you're good, but I'm not good, you know, so they would just start playing and then, then you'd work into it. And, you know, they're, they're such nice people. They're not going to yell and scream at you or anything, but, uh, you know, they would play and then they'd say, okay, I need this here and this here. And as they were learning the new songs and the new sounds, we'd build it from there. And they would rehearse for a long enough time where it wasn't, it wasn't crammed and you weren't really that pushed. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:30:17 And you're taking it. So in that point, wow. I can't believe, I never thought about that different albums you're right. Because I mean, each, each album hunting party sounded different than carnivores, which sounded different than minutes to me. I mean, every single one of them. So the sound, um, man, the things you don't think of when you're not, when you're not doing audio, um, the wood, do you ever have to take any creative license within that to be like, okay, let's see how they're reacting to what they're hearing and kind of watching their face and seeing how they're, you know, if you, if you need to make a change or they're not hearing something, right.
Speaker 2 00:30:53 They'll let you know when they're definitely not hearing something. And you can tell, you know what I mean, if you've been with a band for a while, you know, I used to work for God smack, uh, back in like 2006 to 2010 and I could always w and they had vocal mikes, like five different vocal mics across the dead center. One, then two stage left for our stage left one stage right. Far stage. Right. And I always noticed when Sally would go to the far stage left or far stage, right. Man, the sound just, he just, you know, I can just tell he wasn't happy. And then I realized, you know what, he's when he gets in those two zones, he's right near the PA. Okay. So I had to figure out a way to get it a little more consistent, um, when I, when he was near the PA.
Speaker 2 00:31:39 So, cause I could just tell, he never would say anything to me, but I could just tell by his body language just, wasn't just, wasn't quite as happy there as he was every well. So you learn, you learn by body language when someone's having a good night or having a bad night. And whether it's, you need to help them with certain songs, they're not, like I say, you keep your eyes on these guys for two hours, two hours plus a night, you know, 50 nights in a few months, you, you learn when they're, when they're comfortable or uncomfortable.
Speaker 0 00:32:08 For sure. The, um, one of the things that pooch and I touched on was psychology and understanding how to, you know, interact, how to, um, get, you know, what you need from the artist. Cause sometimes, you know, they don't know how to describe it or they don't know how to, how to bring it up. Do you ever find times where you need to interpret that? Or like they're saying, Oh, I want it to sound like this, but they really mean something or someone else. Okay. A hundred percent. Um,
Speaker 2 00:32:40 You know, like you're saying creative license as a monitor engineer, you don't get too much creative license. Uh, you get a little bit and you gotta, you gotta do some stuff, but it's really what they want to hear. And you gotta, you gotta stay within that framework, you know, and you, and that's what it's really, really about making them happy. And you gotta research like Brad, you know, go back to Brad Delson, you got to research how a band like that. A younger band started that when they started that there was any years already out there and widely used that band blew up so fast. They were never really on wedges. And Brad had those headphones on, in his basement. And that's how he was used to listening to sounds. Yeah. So you have to take all that stuff and how they started and came through the business and how they want to hear stuff. You gotta take all that, all that in and hopefully deliver what they want and hopefully understand what they want when they're saying blue. And they really mean red.
Speaker 0 00:33:36 Yeah, no, that's a good point. Um, yeah, technology it's changed so much in the last, I mean, even in the last 10 to 15 years, um, what has made your life easier, but also what of technology has made your life more difficult?
Speaker 2 00:33:57 Oh, that's a great question. I don't think I, as a general question technology, hasn't made the monitor position, not just me, the monitor position easier. Yeah. When I first started, you know, we used very limited wireless and it was all VHF and you know, the, the microphones were one, two to five channels and you know, one of them was always clean right on VHF and very limited. Well now, uh, and wireless was never a worry back then. So through the years, this wireless and UHS common piling on the amount of wireless that's being used. And now all of a sudden the monitor engineer is now the wireless coordinator. Also, somehow it fell on him and he's got to do all the wireless. So yup. Now that's made my job harder, but now there's been technology within that. It's made it easier to do that portion of the job, but overall, my job got harder is now I'm the wireless coordinator, you know?
Speaker 2 00:34:58 So there's been stuff along the way. That's, that's fallen in there. Yeah. It makes it easier, but it also made it harder first before they've got systems that make it easier. So, and, uh, digital consoles, you've got to learn a whole new thing, but have they made it easier in some ways? Yes. In some ways, no. But, um, you know, they definitely make, they give you a lot more options to do a lot more stuff and you know, being able to recall stuff that you can program it, you know, it's yeah. You can't do, you can't do it. You basically can't do it. Uh, any kind of level of tour without it, these days. Yeah. Gone are the days
Speaker 0 00:35:38 Of the PSM, six hundreds at the little switch, you know, a or B pick the one that's the worst.
Speaker 2 00:35:44 They sound better. But man, it would be nice if you just said which one. Oh yeah. They both are cleaned today. You know, it just doesn't happen.
Speaker 0 00:35:51 No, it doesn't man. I mean, I think in a lot of ways, every tour and both corporate world, I spend more time in the corporate world has to have a wireless coordinator of some sort. I mean, if you don't have that, you're dead in the water. I mean, you know, when we're doing corporate stuff, we're talking minimum 12 channels normally of, of just wireless on stage. Not, not to mention calm.
Speaker 2 00:36:17 I was just saying you guys have coms, which we don't really have.
Speaker 0 00:36:20 Yeah. Um, thankfully calm tends to operate in the 1.9 gigahertz world. Exactly. Um, the, when you first got into the business, so you, you said, you know, in Detroit, your buddy, he put you a monitors, your front of house or he's a front house. You're a monitors. Yeah. What, was there ever a time where you had to go out and find work for yourself beyond working for him? Or was it pretty consistent? Um, just job after job after job?
Speaker 2 00:36:51 Well, I was pretty young. I was still in high school, so I couldn't work all the time. I'd schooled, summers I'd work for him. And then at some point I had purchased my own PA system and I was doing front of house for a band and monitors from front of house. So I was doing both. We didn't have a split and a monitor mixer and I'd still work for him sometimes. And I usually, you know, I guess, cause you know, you learn to mic the stage up and you plug everything in and I just do just turn it out into your you're standing in monitors at that point. Yeah. So that's how it came. When I owned my own PA I never had a split or anything I just had, um, you know, did it from front of house. And then I, and then, um, I got lucky and in the PA I had another guy, not the guy, other guys weren't for it.
Speaker 2 00:37:44 Another guy with a sound company had the exact same Hill console. I had these custom full range cabinets that were floating around Detroit at the time. Um, from Gandalf audio, say little shout out to Rick Michaels. We had all these same PA systems. Well, this other guy was getting way more work than me and getting busier. So he came to me and he bought all my stuff. And at that point, um, I had gotten a gig at Shoko down in Dallas, Texas, which was one of the, the biggest with Clair brothers sound companies. And Claire ended up acquiring them, uh, years, years and years later. Um, but I had worked there for, I worked at Shoko for 10 years and then, you know, basically I did everything in Choco back then a business was a little different back then. Bands didn't have the independent thing wasn't alive and well then it was, uh, if you were Eric Clapton, you use Shoko and your monitor engineer and your front of house engineer worked there.
Speaker 2 00:38:45 Huh? If you were the moody blues, you didn't have independent engineers, you're you? They, they were a clear account because their Claire mixers worked there. So you'd hire Shoko and your mixers would go with the, you know, with the tour. Yeah. And that's how that worked back then. Well, about the mid, mid nineties, that all started to change. And I think that started to change because of the relevance of off the shelf speaker systems. We're now getting Mo you know, people were using them. There was installs before it was proprietary. Shoko prism, S fours from, from Claire, a phase lock from sound image. Everybody had their own proprietary box and you'd use that box. Well, I think when that started to go away a bit because of the boxes L acoustics coming in and JBL coming in and Adams and all these companies getting boxes that were good.
Speaker 2 00:39:37 Yeah. Um, the independent engineers started to come in at that point. And, uh, about 97, I left show co and became an independent engineer. Cause I was getting hired to do gigs away from Shoko at that point, because we were going on runs where the PA's were supplied supplied at the venues. So, um, that's when that whole engineer thing really independent engineer thing really started to take off. And now you don't see engineers anymore, really coming from the, uh, vendors anymore. And I guess it made it easy for the vendors. If the, if it sounded like shit, um, you know, it wasn't their mixer out there. Right. You know, there's no one to blame when it's your company guy mixing on your PA, but if it's an independent guy mixing on your PA, uh, it's definitely the mixer. So nowadays, you know, there's somebody to blame. So, but anyway, uh, that, um, that, uh, that's how it works now, but that when I started, that's not how it worked.
Speaker 0 00:40:35 How did you, so you, you started getting hired away from Shoko. Um, how did you move? I mean, did, Shoko kind of take you to that level that you, you know, I mean, you've been at this high level, I mean really the top of the industry at this point for years and years now was Shoko what got you there? Or was there, was there work within, after Shoko that kinda, that worked you up that ladder and worked you into the a plus level market?
Speaker 2 00:41:03 Well, I can answer that two ways. Show code definitely got me there because they were exposed me to artists. I'd never be exposed to yeah. Knowing production managers and other crews that I would never have been exposed to. It Shoko, even though it was a very large company, the actual sound part, cause they owned very light and developed very light back then. And that was all part of it. But the sound part, even as big as Shoko was, it was not very big as far as, as far as road. So you would work literally you'd be on the road. Everybody was at least 300 days. Wow. Yes. And if not more. So you were on the road all year long and if you were mixing monitors on one tour and then the next tour was getting ready to go out, you were doing, uh, you were the front house systems tech or you were the fly PA flight is because you just did everything.
Speaker 2 00:42:00 Yeah. And that giving me that base of knowing, uh, everything about setting up the systems, power, uh, troubleshooting, all that stuff. I learned all that got my base at Shoko. I'd known some obviously coming in by owning my own PA system, but I didn't know, rigging and troubleshooting with other people and working with local crews and all that stuff. Those skills were honed in, you know, doing tour after tour, after tour with Shoko and you know, my, my first real independent gang from leaving Shoko was Alice Cooper. He was a Shoko account. I mixed him and I went independent because Alice was hiring me constantly, uh, away from Shoko. And I just said, well, you know, I did that. And then I got another gig away from Shoko and, and then I just, I just kept parlaying it from there. And I had so many production managers that I had already become friends with throughout my days of working for all those other bands. And not only that production managers, backline guys and stage managers who now were coming up the ladder and becoming, you know, those people now and then higher and then hiring me. And I just kind of came up in, in that chain. And uh, and also I'd like to say a lot, a lot of hard work, you know? Yep. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:43:14 The only way to get where there is no instantaneous, whoops,
Speaker 2 00:43:19 You say that you say that, but I see a lot of kids now, these days, young, young guys come in and go, I'm a production manager, 20 some year old, I'm thinking, you know, all the production managers I work with were, you know, stage managers or guitar techs are truck drivers first and learn their way through before they can claim to be a production manager. I see a lot of LDS. Now they come out of these schools and they say, I'm an LD. But to me, a good LD is someone that's rigged trust before knows where the, how to rig a point or two, those the power scheme of their system. Then you become those jobs. But nowadays I see a lot of people that jump right into them. Some do good, some do bad, but, um, but don't forget. The advent of these schools is teaching is, is teaching that that can happen. But you rarely see a guy if ever will come out of a technical school. Not saying that they're bad. No, but mix the rolling stones. Yeah. It's not going to happen.
Speaker 0 00:44:13 No, I agree. I mean, because people like the stones they're looking well, one, they know what their sound is going to be. They know what they want and they know that they need someone that has, that has the day in day out venue after venue, after venue experience, um, you know, I've run into my fair share of, of people from those technical schools. And, um, I always appreciate the ones that come out saying, you know what? I have a lot of head knowledge, but I don't know everything. And I don't know great road because coming on the road is a totally different ball game than working. Even if you're coming, even if you're loading in and out of the same venue venue at your technical school a hundred times, it's still the same place. And you have to understand that there's a difference. There's a difference between, you know, the palace at Auburn Hills and the Pepsi center here in Denver or music city center in Nashville, or, you know, rigging a festival in download festival in the UK or going to, you know, rock and ring, rock and park. I mean, they're all vastly different and, and they take different skill sets, different, you know, and the humility of saying, okay, I've never been here. Um, it is critical in what we do
Speaker 2 00:45:32 That coming out of there saying that they've got a real big headstart, at least in my book.
Speaker 0 00:45:37 I agree with you completely. Um, what's the, what's the toughest part about what you do as a monitor engineer? What's the hardest thing that you see when you walk into, you know, each, either each and every day or just overall?
Speaker 2 00:45:52 Well, you know, when you're, when you're mixing the band, you know, you're, to me, my job's on the line every night, you know, you've got to perform every night and, uh, that's the way I look at it every day that my job is, you know, it could be gone tomorrow and I need to make the best of it and do my best work 110% every day and earn every dollar that they're paying me and, um, give them, give them consistency and give them an honest day's work and a great mix. And, um, not only that, the job, uh, and, uh, make sure when you go into these venues, you're not, uh, you're working, even if you're a vendor, you know, you're not working directly for the venue or a vendor, you're still representing the band. So you can't go into these venues or these places around the world and be jerk.
Speaker 2 00:46:39 You ha you know what I mean? You gotta, you gotta show the band off in the right light. And, um, especially if they're a good, a good bunch of guys, you don't, you don't want a band to get a bad reputation because of a bad crew in their mouth. Um, and I usually say it starts from the top. If, if the, if the, uh, employers or the, the musicians are, are not easy to get along with, usually the crew's not, it usually travels right. Downhill and pretty quick. Um, so, but, but even the matter what the situation is, you, you've got to handle yourself appropriately with these, with the locals and the venues and the house, people in the promoters. You don't want to give anybody a bad name out there. It just, it reflects badly everywhere. So not just worrying about getting your job done and getting, getting my mixed, done and consistent, but, you know, you gotta be, you gotta be a team player and you gotta, you gotta work with people. And even when people are mad at you and people are grouchy, cause it's earlier, local guys just did a six in a row and they, you know, they're sleeping at the venue for a turnaround, you know, don't make it any harder. It's hard enough as it is. Don't make it any harder. You know,
Speaker 0 00:47:43 You mean you're not just hanging out with rock stars, partying in the, in the back room every day that that's not your life.
Speaker 2 00:47:49 No, no, never has been, never will. You know, I say this all the time, uh, in my, you know, it's going to be 30, 33 years coming up in August, August 8th is when I kind of call my, my start because that's when I started, Shoko in eight and 1987. So it's 33 years ago. I don't really count my club days here and stuff like that. But yeah, it'd be 33 years. Um, you just ha ha, I've never been the, in it to party with the band or the rock stars or anything like that. You want to do that. Uh, befriend them another way. I really, all the bands I've worked for all these years, I really have less than a handful of musicians in these bands that I call friends. And I, I know everybody likes to say, when they're working for a band, you know, the lead singer is a buddy of mine.
Speaker 2 00:48:39 They're not friends until you have their phone numbers. They call you on holidays and you've been to their house and they don't just talk to you when you're on tour with them. You know what I mean? Those were friends. Are they call you when times are tough and I'd have, as far as musicians and bands, I have less than a handful that, that do that. Yeah. And the one, the ones that I have, I appreciate, and we've become great friends over the years, even when I'm not working for them. And, you know, um, and, and we've made mutual friends together, introduced them to my friends and they'd become friends, stuff like that. So that's what I really, I see it all the time, especially on the internet and Facebook. Oh yeah. You know, here's my buddy, you know what I mean? Yeah. We're best friends, but you know, you go in his Rolodex, don't even have his damn phone number. Yeah. You, you know, it doesn't even know your kids or your kids' names. So that that's, to me, that's not real friendship. Uh, so I've only got a handful of the, and I'll tell you this, when we do talk or we do get together, we're not partying or anything. I mean, no,
Speaker 0 00:49:38 Nope. There's work to be done to be done. Well, you know, when people find out what, when I used to tour with the band with bands and stuff like, Oh, did you know, you know, did you talk to him? Do you hang out with them? But, and I was like, I stayed as far away from the band as I could. Because as soon as the band knows who I am by name and like, there, if there's an issue, like if I'm the closest person and they know who I am, they're coming to me, they're not going to where they should go, which is the production manager. And they'd be like, Oh, Jordan, Jordan, this is a problem. And then now I'm accountable. And I don't want to be that guy. That's the production manager's job. Like he signed up for that and I'm going to let him do it. I'm going to stay as well. That's right. I'm going to stay as far away from the band as humanly possible. And that surprises people like they don't, they don't understand that. I mean, as professionals, our job is to do our job and our job is not to know the band and it's not to hang out it's to go out and execute. And yeah,
Speaker 2 00:50:33 Unfortunately the monitor position, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta know him a bit and of course they know your name and, and that kind of stuff, but, you know, being, you know, I look at, I look at my relationship with Lincoln park, you know, 13 years I've worked with Mike and Chester or with 10 with Chester, um, and the other guys, are we friendly? Hell yeah. We're friendly. Um, but I never crossed the line of, of a business relationship. Um, you know, with Mike, I mean, you know, yeah. I think the guy's great super talent, even with Chester, you know, Chester every night would come up to me before the show, give me a kiss. I love you, man, blah, blah, blah. And then give him the mic and he'd run out there. But you know, where we really friends, you know, he didn't know my kids' names, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 00:51:18 I didn't, you know, I did have his phone number, but I never called him. You know what I mean? So, uh, stuff like that, you know, you gotta look at it in the right, in the right light and uh, but great human beings. They are. And I respect her for that. And I remember, you know, there's tenure, even if we are friendly, there w there's a 10 year age gap between those guys. And it's like, they don't like the same shit. So, you know, um, there's a lot of things like, you know, you get to talk to them, you get to meet again, but you're not, you're not as only friends with everybody. So it's just not the way it is.
Speaker 0 00:51:48 Yeah. You're not talking about your kids' birthdays and all the other stuff that goes on with life and things that you do with friends and that's okay. Um, they have their own and they have friends too, which is great. I mean, you can only have so many people that you are like good friends with and it's just,
Speaker 2 00:52:03 And you know, I was, I'll say this and I know it's going to be broadcast out there. Maybe I shouldn't say it, but I'm going to, because you look at the band and look at the bands is the same way you think, Oh, there's Lincoln park. I'm gonna use that example because that's where the story comes from. And you see, you see that you see them and you think they're all best friends and you think they're hanging out together. And then you find out that they don't, you know what I mean? And, and Mike, it was, it was during, uh, right after we lost Chester, you know, Mike said to me and I went to, went to his house and he had all his friends there and he didn't know him. And I thought, Oh yeah, you know, I get you're right. They all have their own little friends and stuff, you know? And, uh, that hit me. I was like, Oh yeah, you're right. You know, as close as those two were, you know, Chester had a life of other people away from Lincoln park as I'm sure Mike does. And they all did, but, um, that kind of hit home with me all. Yes. It went the way I thought about it, you know? So, yeah.
Speaker 0 00:53:00 Interesting. That's, that's a great perspective to help us better understand the music industry and where, I mean, and everybody, I mean, I hate to use the word hierarchy, but there's different levels. Like it's just, I mean, income life just everybody's in a different place and that's okay. W w we love to do different things. You like heavy metal music. I'm not a huge heavy metal fan and that's okay. Um, yeah, it wasn't. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:53:27 Sarah, when I grew up, that was, you know, it was the popular thing then that's, I know how to, you know, I know how to mix it in and it just lends itself to, luckily, luckily I've stayed in that, in that vein. So that's great, but you're right. A lot of people forget, um, you know, I, I've never been a multi-millionaire and I, you know, I don't think most people are, you know, we're working, working people and you know, we've done well, this is a good career. You can make a lot of money, but when you're in that range of making a lot of money, right. I don't care what the money didn't change me. It changes you, you do different stuff, you know? So it's sometimes it's, you know, it's hard to be on that level. They're operating at a little bit different level, as far as, you know, like you say that hierarchy,
Speaker 0 00:54:15 You're talking about taking your, your private jet to whatever place you're going versus the guy that, you know, the rest of us that are flying coach on that, you know, on, on the, the cheapo seat, back in the, in the middle of the, I can't even think of the word right now. I'm like the flying, the fly, the shit. It's not even a ship. Gosh. Oh, my word, um, what are three things you need on every show, three things that you need tater needs on every show. It doesn't matter what they are. They can be anything at all, but what are, what are the three things
Speaker 2 00:54:49 I always used to say to do a gig? Not that I need, I always used to say, to do a gig, you need three things. You need points, power and people. It's funny you say that. Cause that was always my motto. You got to hang that stuff above everybody's heads. So you got to have some points, right? You got to have people, you gotta have fans, you gotta have stage hands. You gotta have the band. You've got to have caterers. You gotta have everybody to make that thing go. And you gotta have power. If you don't have power, nothing's going to turn on. So that's always, to me, the three things that the, that the big picture needs yep. Things that I need you can add to that is, um,
Speaker 0 00:55:22 Is really clean frequencies.
Speaker 2 00:55:25 Well that on the end, as a caveat, that's really the thing. You know, the three things I need, uh, you know, I'm lucky enough to, and I have been lucky enough bait really my whole career that I've never really had to use local gear. I I'm fortunate enough that the gear I use starting in rehearsals is the gear I use every day. And I give, I give a lot of credit to, um, local local guys who work for local sound companies, mixing different bands every night on different gears. Uh, their chops are probably way better than mine now because they're just used to dealing with different stuff all the time. And you know, I'm one console, one, this one that it's always the same gear and you lose your chops that way, where those guys' chops are probably spot on. You know? So they're, it's almost kind of, even though it's the same job, it's a different job.
Speaker 2 00:56:15 So really just some clean frequencies in the end of the day. Now, along with those three P's are really what get me through, but, you know, you gotta, you gotta have some catering in there got to wake up. You've got to have some food to get through the, get through the day, some clean frequencies. And you know, you gotta have some time, you know, a lot of times you're pressed for time. And if one department gets behind, everybody's behind. And, uh, I've been also lucky that a lot of the bands that worked for iron maiden, Lincoln park, Judas priest, they never sound check. And that extra two, two and a half hours a day of no soundcheck really gives you time to get stuff right. And dialed in because you're really under the gun, you know, on 10, 12, 18 truck tours to get that done by a certain time, if they have to sound check and you like to give the opening act guidance, you need to slight them all the time. You know, you've got to in a minute. So, you know, you hate, you hate to be running them up to doors.
Speaker 0 00:57:11 Here you go, guys, two minutes, set your gear up, go, go. So if somebody wants to become a monitor engineer on the level that you operate and have operated for a long time, um, especially the young ones that are coming out of a trade school, they're, they're, you know, work in the shop at sound image or at eighth day or at Clare or whatever. Um, what are a couple of things they should be looking at right now for the next couple of years to, to be able to create the skills that they need to get to that level.
Speaker 2 00:57:48 That's a great question. Once again, I'm going to answer in a couple of different ways right now in the midst of what we're going through. If I was a young engineer, I would, and I live wherever I lived. If I lived in California, I'd be calling sound image or Schubert. If I was on the East coast, I'd be calling Claire or rock systems audio, or, you know, in the, in the Midwest, one of those many companies in Nashville, I would be all over them say, Hey man, can I have a few hours on a console? Like I'm not, I'm not, you know, I don't have as much time on a DiGiCo or Yamaha. Okay. Can I get in there for a few hours? I know, I know the consoles are there, uh, can I set up in a corner and use it? I would be doing that as much as I can.
Speaker 2 00:58:32 And if you are in anywhere near any of the distributors of Yamaha DiGiCo or SSL, I'd be begging them to get to some room where they know there is one close to you and that you can use, uh, I think this is a great time for that. And I think I would have to think just about anybody, um, you know, within limitations would let you do that. I don't, you know, I've heard a lot of people asking about that and I said, this whole time, you know, I got a whole warehouse full of sitting here. Now, if you're in the Detroit area and I'm here, stop on by, I have no problem letting anybody. Oh yeah. We've had a few people take me up on that too. So I have no problem with anybody wanting to come and, you know, show, show, show things, show me things, however, you know, however it rolls down.
Speaker 2 00:59:18 But as excuse, um, as with it's been going on is away from what's happening now. Um, I've been doing, uh, uh, a webinar. You call it with pooch called wrong into the snake. And we have guests on that. We have relationships with, uh, over our career that we've worked with. And we've, we've had, uh, Meagan homes on who, who works at eighth day sound. Uh, we had Robert Long on yesterday's production manager for kiss a Motley crew. Uh, we've had a lot of people like that who are in the hiring and firing decisions. Yeah. And, and when we asked them that same question that you asked me what they say every time, which I totally agree upon when they do a list of five things that they want from a young kid or new employees, never in the top five has been the job that they're hired for.
Speaker 2 01:00:13 That's never in the top five, like I'm going to hire an audio tech. I want that guy to know wireless. I want him to know Scott to know smart. He's got a new, no, the new ELA acoustics processor. And he has to know these new road, star chain motors upside down and be able to take it. None of that ever comes into play. It's how long, how well do they get along? You know what I mean? All those other aspects. It's never the job aspect because the job, even though it's a big part of it, and I hate to, I hate to slight the job end. It's all about how you get along on the road, how you get along with other people. Are you a team player? The knowledge of the job, everyone is willing to let you kind of gain knowledge as you go yup.
Speaker 2 01:00:58 And mold you a certain way. And they've got those, those people that I'm, I mentioned in Janine Edwards and all those tour managers and stuff, they all have crew chiefs that they like to use from, from whatever companies, audio vendors, lighting, sound, pyro video, and they'll let the crew chiefs, they know that those crew chiefs can handle those younger guys and, and move them along the way they needed to be moved along as long as all the attitudes and the everything are in place first. So that's, that's the main thing is your willingness to be a team player and your attitude. And can you live on a bus and live in and out of the suitcase or the hotel room? It's more about that stuff still to this day, then whether you got an a at full sail.
Speaker 0 01:01:42 Yeah, that's true. Those interpersonal skills are critical to, to understand and working with other people and, and plus, you know, being willing to learn bus out of kit and, you know, understand that tater gets a middle bunk, not a bottom or a top. That's true. That's fair.
Speaker 2 01:01:58 33 years. Get you in life, guys. You really want to strive to be an audio guy. That's what it gets you. 33 years gets you a middle bunk.
Speaker 0 01:02:04 That's right. He gets well, Hey, and you get your first pick. You're the first guy on the bus. And you know, it's so awesome. Well, as we wrap things up today, um, the question I like to ask everybody, uh, as we end, this is, you know, we're in the COVID, we're in this very interesting time, but we're going to be back to gigging someday at some point. Um, what are two things that everybody can do? Not just audio, but each and every person can do that. The next time they set foot at a gig, they can be more gig ready than they are right now. They can be more ready to do that gig and perform at a higher level, uh, than they were when we, you know, when this whole thing started.
Speaker 2 01:02:47 Well, you know, at my age, I think, um, that's a lot, some of that's age appropriate, you know, if you're 20 or in your early thirties, you know, if you're still in pretty good shape, you're, you're doing great there. I got to tell you, I would always be staying in touch with people. Yeah. See what's going on. Oh yeah. It's called everybody every day, but a text now, and then an email somebody you toured with before, um, I would keep in touch with people. Keep your name out there a little bit, at least people in your, I don't say inner circle, but your, you know, your touring circle. Yep. Um, also I think for me at my age, it's like, you know, I'm relaxing a bit more now, so I gotta be renewed when it's time to go out. I gotta start getting my, staying out, getting up early, staying up late and, you know, getting all that kind of regiment back in and, and doing 10,000 steps a day.
Speaker 2 01:03:38 Cause that's what you do at a gig. You don't do that for a few months at my age, you're in and you're going to those first two weeks are going to be killer for you. So I would, and I also, there is so much knowledge out there. Now on these videos, I would be watching these things. You gotta remember these people, these sound companies aren't working either. And, and these console companies and speaker manufacturers, they've all got touring people that, that aren't doing the normal stuff. And they're willing to take calls and talk to you and help you and educate you. So stay educated. And last, lastly, like I say, a lot of this see a lot of this lately. Cause you know, you're on social media and, and you see it. Uh, I see a lot of people, my world's ended, my life is ended.
Speaker 2 01:04:21 I don't have a job. Yeah. And that, I hate that. I'm going to put that out there. I, I don't hate a lot of things. I hate that. Yep. Um, I've had, you know, my age, you lose friends early. Um, you have friends that lose kids early. Yep. And that is when your world ends not when your job ends that when the job you loved ends, your world is not over with, uh, if your family's healthy, everybody's safe. You've got at least some Dean on the table. That's your world. Yeah. Okay. Your job is not your world. And I see that constantly on the internet and it just drives me up the wall that you're healthy. You can, at this time being there's help, wanted signs everywhere, take a temporary break. Yeah. You know, move on, try something else, man. Try, use a skill working somewhere else and see if you like it.
Speaker 2 01:05:14 And it's not that I want to lose young in this business or old people to other jobs. Cause as long as this goes on, if you're any good, you're going to get promoted. If it lasts a year into this new job and you may like it better, you know, we got to make sure that these young people are coming back. I understand that. But your, your world hasn't ended stay positive. Just keep busy. And if you, if you need the money, there's tons of other jobs out there to work. Um, it may not be what you want, but pay. None of this is what we want right now. So, um, and I think it's also a lesson to a lot of older people like me. Um, that took work. You know, I I've always taken work for granted and, and I always, I always knew someday something would happen.
Speaker 2 01:05:54 I always thought it would be, you know, uh, Chester one day saying I don't like the way you mix and you're outta here and I'm out of a job and can't find another one, but it happens to be COVID and um, that's keeping us away. And now I hate the reason it's happened. I don't like the deaths. I don't like people being sick obviously. But at this point in my career, you know what? This, this break is doing me a lot of good. I didn't realize I needed the rest. I needed to reconnect with a lot of people. Uh, and more than just phone calls. I needed to see them. I needed to be home for a summer. Um, there's a lot of stuff I needed in 33 years and spending a lot of time on the road that I, I forgot that I, that I needed.
Speaker 2 01:06:34 I needed a break and I should have been spending more time at home and being on the road 300 plus days a year is not. I look back really. Wasn't the greatest decision in my life I could have done without the money and as I'm doing now. And I also saw a lot of people that I respected now saying a lot of things like, like April 1st, I'm out of money and I need to get help. And I need to go to these charities and I'm thinking a real road, person's got at least three months backup. Okay. You don't have three months backup. If you're crying for help in April, man, you're going to be bombing. So I don't know why these people, that quote unquote called themselves real road. People were, didn't have that savings. And if they had hardship before, then I feel bad for them and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 01:07:19 But man, people you've, if you're in this job, you've got to have savings. We used to say three months and now shoot, I'm going six months to a year now saying that's how much savings you need. Um, so, but you know, as long as everybody's happy, healthy, and their families are happy and healthy, their world hasn't ended, the gigs have gone away. Okay. And we see how much people really care about them. No, one's even, we're barely even noticed. Right. Really think about it. Right. Um, quartz has taken a, a stance first and people aren't even talking about it industry. So, you know, we all, I thought we were high and mighty, you know, I do a rock show. This is the most important thing in the world that I can hang a PA system lot, get out of my way, but it's not, it never has been. And um, I've never liked that attitude before this or even during, so that's my 2 cents. Sorry. That's great. I love it. That it's, you know, I've got a lot of radicals to use on this stuff and that's good.
Speaker 0 01:08:23 That's okay. I mean, I agree with you savings, critical being prepared. I mean, you never know when the net, I mean, we live in a world of where we don't know when the next gig is coming and it could be, I mean, this is something that's happened to me before where it's like, I'm coming to the end of a tour and company. I had been working for like nothing was happening. Nothing's going on. Thankfully stuff came together, but you know, you could be a week or two from the end of a tour and think that crap, the next six months is nothing. Um, I gotta be prepared. Um, and, uh, I, I think that that's incredibly good, uh, good wisdom there from the tater.
Speaker 2 01:09:01 It's got to come down to that now that we're on the subject and I'm doing the doors everybody out and I shouldn't be, but, but even, even before the situation we're in now, I seen unfortunately a lot of, a lot of roadies younger than I am, have have, you know, unfortunately lost their lives. And then I see these GoFundMe pages for these guys, for their wife and their kids. And I'm thinking, man, you know, term life insurance for somebody under fifties about got no more than $25 a month for about 250 grand. And I'm thinking, how did they not do that when you have, and, and I'm not talking about for roadies, I'm talking about people in general, even how, how are you not spending $25 a month on $250,000 of term life insurance, um, to, um, to cover your wife and kids, if something happens.
Speaker 2 01:09:53 And I see that a lot in our industry and I'm thinking, man, that that's like a days per diem for a month, you know? And, and I see that it just makes me think, man, what, what's the thinking going on there? And we're in such a volatile business, you need to be, um, protected in every way possible with the proper insurances to cover your, your wife, family, your loved ones, whoever they are, husbands, you know, kids, whatever your extended family, your inner circle is. And I see it all the time. And I just think, man is, is, is this goes on it's, it's tough. And I, and I don't like to see that happen when, when there is things out there that can fix some of these issues for, for not a lot of money.
Speaker 0 01:10:40 Yeah, no, I mean, heck if you're out on the road, it's like three less drinks the night, you know, across a month. And that, and that pays for that month of term life insurance. Did you really need that other martini or that other margarita? Or did you, you know, I mean, if you think about, I mean, I know it sounds kind of sounds mean like, Oh, well don't tell me what I can and can't do. But, uh, long-term thinking, you know, we all have families. I don't know anybody out there that doesn't have somebody, whether it's mom, dad, kids, wife, aunts, uncles, whatever, you know that that's going to miss them. If something were to happen, you know, doing something that, that at least helps to ease that pain, should something happen to you being that we live in an unpredictable life and unpredictable world.
Speaker 0 01:11:27 Um, you know, I always carried stuff for my family, my wife, my kids, you know, if I were to die, I mean, my wife would always tell me the money. Isn't worth it to me. If you were to die. And I get that, I get the money's not worth it. But then she doesn't have to think for six months a year of like, how am I going to take care of the house? How am I going to pay the mortgage? How am I going to take care of the kids? Like those things, help people heal, help people mourn, help them really get stress on them. No, it's tough. So there you go, term life is your tater, are you selling term life insurance? Is that what you're doing now?
Speaker 2 01:12:06 I'm not, you know, I own a little bit of term. I, I own mainly whole life insurance and I bought them at a very, very young age. Yeah. And I really thought I'm going to tell you the story, because I'll tell you the truth. I thought I was getting ripped off. I thought I didn't quite understand whole, and I didn't quite understand term. I knew term was like car insurance. You know, you give it to them. You never get the money, but it's gone. Right? Yup. Well, I bought some, I bought some term to level up. My whole life insurance, whole life is a lot more expensive, but it's also an insurance policy that pays dividends. Yep. And I've had them so long now that they pay themselves. Cause there were so much money. That's awesome. And this thing I thought that I didn't understand and I thought I got kind of ripped off on, has been really my best investments throughout the years of Ben all the whole life policies I have purchased.
Speaker 2 01:12:55 And I keep, I keep a little bit of term just to, just to, you know, just a little cherry on top for cheap, you know what I mean? To, to increase that, to increase that. And um, that's, uh, always been, always had that always will have it. And uh, it's just a safety, it's just a safety net. Just like, just like anything. Th those are, you know, a lot of important tools to, to in life. And not only for this kind of job, which I, I don't know the facts of it could be higher risk than most jobs, but man, we're in airplanes, we're traveling all over the world, you know, anything can happen. Yeah. And I was lucky enough to not, I wasn't smart enough, but I got some good advice at a young age and, and made a few, um, and made a few right.
Speaker 2 01:13:36 Moves by the advice of some people that I listened to because I always think I'm not smart enough. So I listened to other people. Yeah. And, um, you know, the advice was good and, and, and, and, you know, the time when you're doing 300 days plus a year on the road, and I just remember it Shoko, I was, you know, just turn 21 and I'm going to be 54 next month. And it's like the blink of an eye it's gone that time has gone. Yeah. You know, and that was another thing about this is, you know, you've got to spend time with your kids. Uh, th th the time goes so fast, uh, and being out, you know, I see all these young guys, young families, they want to be on the road, on the road, on the road, man, take a step back for a minute. It's tough. I I'm with you if you want. I, that's not up to me, but I'm not speaking for my, my
Speaker 0 01:14:25 So much for taking the time to listen today. That's very, no, that doesn't mean my wife and kid and every one of us want to do better tomorrow, especially for today. Not that that's why an agreement on the road, just because I was not playing nothing. Professionals can quit the road itself. Look what they're doing. Look at how they're doing it. And that was tough. In fact, it's funny to say, we're not going to take corporate address. We'll have to take sponsorship money. <inaudible> so please give us some that I want to get. I was like with the adult on podcasts, doing anything else, cause I'm on the road to give back and daddy are fun. You know, the ability to be a little critical. Now I find that I follow those same patterns, even though every day. And I have a great day stay safe out there. That balance of like gray. I need, <inaudible> taking my boys for bike rides, doing things that aren't like stuck in the house have been really good for me. Um, but Hey, thanks for, um, thanks for chatting, dude. I loved it. It was awesome. And great stories learned some cool things that I had no clue actually existed. So thanks for coming. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 01:15:50 Okay. Hope too many people don't hate me after my tie rate, but uh, Hey, come on. Good deals. I got to say it like I see it. So
Speaker 0 01:15:59 That's right. Awesome. Well, thanks again. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 01:16:01 All right. Thank you, Jordan. Appreciate it.
