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Speaker 1 00:01:15 <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:01:30 Hey everybody. This is Jordan Goodfellow with gig. Ready, excited to have you here today. Today, we are going to talk all things, labor work, people that work hard, bust their butts every single day, local labor. He is the master when it comes to all things related to stage hands, festival, hands, all of that, his name's Chris Bretton. He's the owner and founder of Chrome productions out of Orlando, Florida. Chris, thanks for being here today. Great to have,
Speaker 2 00:02:00 Yeah, thanks Jordan. It's good to be here with everybody. Um, just to give you a little background on myself, my name is Chris Britton. I own Chrome productions. Um, then in the industry, she's I think about 15 years now started, started out as one of those little case pusher dudes walking up the truck green as heck going, Hey guys, what's this? You know, so worked my way up. Um, spent a lot of time just doing the menial jobs, you know, running cable, you know, taping tape and doing all this stuff. I did have a, uh, uh, seen it background, got into doing a lot of scenery, but we always noticed that you as a TD yourself and others were having a hard time, really getting good labor. Um, we worked for many companies from EPS, SGA, a lot of these guys out here, local area.
Speaker 2 00:02:50 And, um, I, I wouldn't have a lot of crew lists. So I started figuring out, instead of me just giving it to other companies who are just brokers start my own deal. So that's what we did. And you've used me a few times. Um, know many of the many guys have, and for the most part, I'd say probably 99% of the time, everything runs smooth. But as you know, and then he had this industry, we always have that 1%. So I'm hoping, maybe give you a little insight of what it'll help, um, from pre pre show and the show after show what works, what doesn't work, what helps, why there, you know, the other thing is charging, finding out why, why did the labor companies charge what they charge? So, you know, I'm, I'm open to any questions, comments, concerns, what do y'all want to know?
Speaker 0 00:03:33 Yeah. Well, that's very true. I think it's great. I'm looking forward to having our discussion today and, uh, I'm going to jump right in with, uh, kind of the first thing I always ask, which is as a labor coordinator, there's a lot of labor companies out there, or I guess labor coordinator isn't even the right word. What we're, what do you, labor coordinator means that all you do is coordinate the labor, but you're more like a cat herder, I guess. Is that what it is?
Speaker 2 00:04:02 Uh, yeah, something like that. Cattle prod in hand, as, you know, a lot of times the cattle call system, but I don't like to do that. Um, I like to call ourselves a labor company. We're not a brokerage where we're not just the guy out there that doesn't know the industry. We know the industry inside and out from pre-show show and after. So I like to, I like to pride myself on very rarely do I try to bring people in, into your shows that are well-trained ready to go. Um, a lot of it does depend on budget. Of course, we both know that, you know, if the client's willing to pay, you can have the greatest labor in the world. It's not, you're going to get guys that are hands, but not necessarily tech hands. You know, it's just depends on which way you want to go with that. So, but I like to call myself a labor company because I'll say 90% of my call list are people that are multitask that can do multiple things. So
Speaker 0 00:04:53 Very true. Um, all right. So labor company, I will revise my, uh, my nomenclature going forward. Um, I think that as a labor company, um, we've got a lot of different ones out there and, and it's, to me as a technical director company owner, it seemed like every other week, I think about three years ago, there was like a new one, pop it up. It's suddenly, you know, AAV industry just was just going crazy. We had so many people doing shows and suddenly everyone's like, Oh no, I can make money in labor. Uh, because of course it really is a, um, it's a $0 entry into the market. I mean, it's the easiest way to get into our industry, uh, to start a business because you don't have to have the capital for gear. Um, you don't have all that stuff. So what, what drove you, or what caused you to say, Hey, I need to get into the labor industry. I want to get into managing that and providing that service to people.
Speaker 2 00:05:52 Well, first of all, I saw on my end when I was just the staying and how that industry is really sometimes taken advantage of, um, you have guys that are highly scaled and then you've got guys who aren't highly skilled and each one of them are basically getting paid the same for the most part. Most of the time, it was 18 to $20 an hour. You know, that these guys were getting in on. And, and to me, I was looking more to the fact that, Oh my God, like, what are we doing here? You know, you're paying a rate to get somebody who knew lighting, but yet when they got on the show today, they just figured out that they're going to lighting so that doesn't help you. It doesn't help your clients. Now in turn, I will say this, the same thing that I say to all my TDS is you kind of get what you pay for.
Speaker 2 00:06:39 And what I mean by that is you got some that are just doubt, bottom line. The client doesn't want to pay for this, but it's making you go into overtime or it's making you go into whatever. And you got to get more guys tomorrow. You know, your, your basic plan goes out the window because you can only pay, you know, a good stagehand nowadays is 20 to $25. And that's the God honest truth. And if they're getting lower than that, they're probably really green to the industry. So you're going to get paid for, but I got into it, seeing that, um, I saw a lot of, you know, Hey guys, ask me, Hey, Chris, you're on all these shows, man. You know, so-and-so yeah. So you get them 20 guys, but you weren't seeing anything for it. Oh, you were doing it. You were being the broker without getting paid, basically.
Speaker 2 00:07:21 Yeah. So I got with a couple buddies and we said, let's do this. And we started it up and you know, we already had the client list. We know everybody, we know who's good, who's bad. We worked in the side by side with them. So, you know, who's going to be the good guy. So we just started doing that. Now, the only thing I was going to say is, like you said, when it started booming, that's when everybody popped out of the window and thought I could be a labor guy and you're right. It doesn't have a lot of money to start, but it does have some, if you do, don't do, if you do it right. In other words, you need that worker's comp you need that liability, you know, in the worker's comp is, is the, is the biggest part to me that it strikes that people don't realize that cost, that cost is tremendous on the labor side.
Speaker 2 00:08:02 Um, they don't break it down as much as you think, you know, you're paying a lot on it, even if they're 10 99 employees, or if they have their own insurance, you still have to pay. So that's where your startup costs really get to you. But it's nothing like, let's say you're buying all the gear by far, you're got all upfront or mine isn't most of the time. So, but I did get into that just because of that reason. And, you know, we, we built a pretty good reputation. Um, I have had other businesses doing this that necessarily did not save work out, but I just finally wanted to get on my own. It was time. It was just time to do it myself. I don't have nobody else to blame or nobody else to go to or nobody else to worry about. I just wanted to be on my own and it's running it my way, how I want to do it.
Speaker 2 00:08:48 And that's nothing against anybody I was with before. Those guys are amazing. Everybody I've worked with or been a partner with are absolutely amazing and they'll go out of their way and their industry grade. So, but I just wanted to do it myself. Now. It's time. It's time that the rocket, I have some other features that you guys will hear in another, another podcast down the line and your webcast on the line. Then I do also. So I'm able to do a combo for a lot of people, which TD is like, you know, you can do two for one and save a little money. So, but for the most part, I wanted to also look out for my fellow stagehands. We felt like a lot of them we'd find out by either a running the crew or booking the show or that, that the company was getting say $30 an hour or 30 to a guy and paying 16.
Speaker 2 00:09:33 Like to me, that's not right. I understand that the company has got to make money to you, but there's gotta be a better medium for that. And I feel like we've helped do that with the industry by paying more. I mean, most of the time we're at 20. I mean, there's some, some calls that are 18. If they're regular labor, you know, if we got saved loading and unloading crews, um, but most of my tech, labor's getting 20, 25 to start. It's not trying to get them to 30, which, you know, on a lot of these shows, that's tough because a lot of the times you can only get, say 32 to 35, an hour per hand, you know, uh, uh, technical, you know, why contact okay on me and you always call them utilities. I want utilities. I want guys that can do just about anything. So we get through them in lighting, video, whatever, or we can switch around what we want. So, yeah.
Speaker 0 00:10:18 And there's also, I mean, from a pay rate standpoint, in my, you know, I'm not, uh, well, two things, one, I'm not a labor company, but from a worker's comp standpoint, I mean 10 99, I have to carry. I think I carry at least an extra a hundred thousand in workers' comp per year. Just to cover guys that might get hurt because you never know someone could be 10 99, but they could come back and say, Oh, well, I was working for these guys. And to be honest, most of the time against the labor board, they will win if they try and come after you or whatever. And I don't ever want that to be the case. Like if somebody comes in, um, you know, and someone gets hurt on a job site, um, you know, we, of course, as a company now that we're not a labor company, we require all of our contractors to maintain their own worker's comp when they come and work for us.
Speaker 0 00:11:06 Uh, but in the past before then, my, my insurance carrier was like, Hey, you need to make sure you have this. Because even though they say 10 99, they're not always guaranteed that. And, uh, but going forward now in this year, we made it a standard for us that, you know, every single contract that we have needs to carry their own liability, they need to carry their own workers' comp because it's imperative. If somebody gets hurt, you know, you want to know that they're, that they're taken care of. I don't want to question whether or not they're going to be able to provide for their family and do stuff like that. Um, and the second thing is from a rate standpoint, the lower the rate, the more guys work because they need the money. We all do. Everybody needs the money. Everybody works hard to get more money.
Speaker 0 00:11:50 Well, if you're paying a guy low, a lower rate, that means that they're going to work more, which means they're doing back to backs, which means that you got guys that could be working 16, 18, 20 hours a day. You know, guys that finished a load out at 3:00 AM and they're back on an 8:00 AM call. Um, you know, I, I'm not saying that people can't do it, but it is dangerous. You do that enough. And that gets dangerous. That gets to the point where you get guys that, you know, they're tired, they make mistakes, they drop things. Their muscles are fatigued. I mean, we do hard work. We lift heavy loads, we push heavy things up Hills downhills, you know, up ramps, down ramps in and out of trucks. Um, you know, safety is, is key to what we do. And again, that goes back to the, I don't want to have to use the worker's comp. So I want them to be safe. You know, I would rather pay guys a couple dollars extra, you know, to help them give them that pad to feel like, Hey, you know what? I don't need to work 16 hours today.
Speaker 2 00:12:47 Well, you know, well, Jordan, you know, in Orlando, how many companies are out here? So are you picking up a gig in the morning to do a night a night? Uh, you know, Stripe, I I'm doing it in, in the morning. And then, you know, we got a 10 o'clock strike you're already. Yeah. I just pulled like an eight hour and it was supposed to be a four. And now either they're tired and you're trying to, you know, you know how it is at the end of a gig? What is it we always said to get up for the out, you know, we want to get out. Everybody wants to get on their plane and get out. So, you know, to me, I was as a coordinator in, even my old partners with me, our number one concern was, is everybody's safe. You know, we we've made TDS mad because we like w you know, you didn't plan this good.
Speaker 2 00:13:26 And now we're in a spot and you're making it sound like it's our fault, but it's really not, you know, we're trying to get you as much as we can, but you know, you can't have a, a 20 man call at, you know, all day in Orlando and then, okay, we're going to do a 2:00 AM 20 man call that. We're going to add on last minute, you know, I know stuff happens. They're always going to be safe. But if there's a way to plan around that, because you're calling around and then you're getting in the cattle call situations where everybody's calling each other and any company that does labor that says that they don't do that. They're lying to you. It's a deal where especially last minute stuff where, Hey, I know so-and-so and so-and-so who knows so-and-so and they're going to bring you four guys, but you don't know how fresh they are.
Speaker 2 00:14:06 You don't know all that. So a lot of, a lot of what I'm trying to get at at the beginning is planning. If we know for the most part, you should be able to know within 20 people in any event for any call, that what we're going to need months out a month in advance. Let's say for, for, for, uh, for this situation, if the sooner you let me know, Hey, I've got this gig, we're going to be in generalization here. I can start locking some guys in, especially guys. I know that are really good. Um, you know, like that helps out a lot. I, I can't stress to you. How many times you get those calls where, Hey, man, I've got to show it's next week and you look at it and go, all right. I mean, I can fill it for you, but I can't guarantee everybody we're going to get, because you're in Orlando.
Speaker 2 00:14:48 And right now there's this, this, this, this going on you, how long have you known about them? I I've known this show for six months. Okay. Well, why don't you hit us up or why didn't you hit anybody up or start something like, just like, you're always a few months out for me. Every time we've done it, you're a few months out. Uh we'd know, basically, Hey, we're going to be in this range. Yes. You can add guys. And we can subtract guys within a few days. That's not a problem, but when it starts getting into like a week out, we're trying to add a 20 man call. That's when it gets really tough. So if I can, if I can stress that anybody out there, the sooner, you know, you got that good going on with generals, at least get the generals up there. Hey, I'm going to, I know we're going to need roughly, probably about 50 guys. Let's start, you know, start locking in. Like, let's get kind of close to there any good. Company's not going to hold you to, well, Jordan, you said 50, but we're only doing 46. You know what I mean? Like any good company is not going to do that. We've always worked with you. You know, we've always said, all right, we're going to make it work. You know,
Speaker 0 00:15:43 Lack of planning does not constitute an emergency on my part. Right?
Speaker 2 00:15:48 Correct. But the problem is in this industry, when you said so many, there's so many companies pop up that you have to have as a labor company, you gotta be careful cause you don't want to lose clients or you don't want that guy, even though it's their fault, go to another TD. But you're like, Oh, you're using them over the last show I had, but they're not going to tell you why I added a 30 man call, you know, a day before the show. And it sucks. Yeah. But that's kind of stuff we run into, but I'm not saying everything like that. And I'm not saying everything's always perfect on our end by far. I mean, you can, you could hire guys and you're not know, you don't know. Sometimes you hire people on reputation and the reputation that would be in falls. So,
Speaker 0 00:16:24 So I've been there. Um, we can talk about that later, but speaking of crew calls, guys scheduling, how do you manage a project from start to finish? Um, give me a quick synopsis. Just bullet points. It doesn't have to be tons of, but give me an idea. Like what does that look like? Managing a project from start to finish. And that is from the first phone call until the last truck door closes or even past that actually for you, a project goes past that. Cause you're paying guys you're, you know, so talk to me about that.
Speaker 2 00:16:55 So, so basically what, what I would do is you say you would give me an email or most of the time you just give me a little text, Hey, I've got a show coming up. I'll get with you. A lot of times you don't hear nothing maybe for a week or two, sometimes a month because you know, a lot of times you'll have shows that you find out about are six months out. You know? So for us just to know that, Hey, we've got some stuff coming up, we'll kind of get it in our calendar of dates. I'll put it in a calendar of, okay, well right now I got this, but we always use that as a grain of salt. Then as we get closer and closer, I might shoot you a line. Hey, how are we looking on this show? We'll find out like, Oh, we're like a month out before we start doing it.
Speaker 2 00:17:29 Usually, usually I would say about 60 days out is when you start getting some preliminary numbers of, Hey, I'm going to need, here's my dates I have so far, but this could change. Okay. No problem. About a month out is when things start to formulate, I would say that you could give me an actual schedule where we're starting to break down a show run of when, you know, I need a pre production rig here. So I need some guys to help do trust. You know, in, uh, we go into each day of the show, I would say about three weeks out. We try to lock in everything. I, I like it to be at least three weeks. I prefer a month. That way you get our down payment, I could start lacking some guys in. We can start getting the paperwork to you guys, your worker's comp paperwork, stuff like that.
Speaker 2 00:18:13 Get any, if we need to any type of vendor agreements, get that done. But I can also start planning. Like I said, you'll know, like on the first day I need 40 guys total depending on what they are and we can start locking in those. Um, and then we lock in rates to like, okay, here I can do this. You know, depending on utility compared to a tag, or let's say somebody doing camera, stuff like that. Um, as we get closer and closer, I, I been starting to do now too. And I did it with the last company and I know my other partners are doing it as we get about, I'd say about 10 to two weeks out, we start locking in all the names. I'll send a preliminary spreadsheet of the guys. We got coming down with names, addresses, phone numbers, type of thing.
Speaker 2 00:18:54 So you guys feel more comfortable as we got this under control. Um, you usually about a week out, I've got everybody locked in, ready to go. Now that being said, you know, this industry, if it's a four hour mini and they can pick up a day rate, they're going to go to the day rate and drop you like a heart. No, I never hold that as a grudge to anybody. Just let everybody know. Um, you gotta make your money, especially as three months. So I don't feel that. So anyway, so, uh, I tend to overbook, um, I'll book two or three extra guys just knowing people and hands that way we know a couple are going to drop out and sometimes I've even had them on the site. I've paid them and they've been extra. So I think we did that with you a couple of times with like, uh, I think it was Baxter a bushel and I can't remember which one, but we did extra. And then we did, I paid them. I didn't make you pay for them, but there was one time you said, no, I'll get, I'll even get them because he was a big help. I, you know, I try to work with diabetes, but a lot of times that's behind the scenes where you don't see. Um, and then the night before I do it, well, I'm sorry. Let me, let me bring it back. About three nights before I do one more email, text, a text message and email to all my people,
Speaker 3 00:20:00 Um, time, what you need
Speaker 2 00:20:02 To bring, what you need to wear when to be there. Um, if you're still, you know, confirmed for the gig, just to make sure, cause some people do double book and they don't realize it. Um, especially if they're newer to the industry. So I'll make sure and I get everything finalized. I'll send, I'll send a copy over to you just that you got it too. Um, sometimes it helps on-site it's something's going on and I can't be right next to you. You got an idea of what guys are supposed to be wearing. Um, the night before I do the same thing, I send out that text just to make sure and everybody confirmed. If they don't confirm, I keep going and I keep calling them until they do. That's where my three or four guys would come in handy before where somebody got put in jail or, you know, somebody got in an accident or something. So that, that helps out, um, there's money in this industry
Speaker 4 00:20:48 So we can do extra. So, so that's the night before. And then the day of, um, I usually have my guys at least half an hour before check-in and that way I know I got everybody, um, up to two hours before I'm texting, just making sure, just that's me. I want to make sure that we cover all basis. Um, and then we start our deal. And usually during that timeframe, when everybody texts in, um, I know with the other company I was with before we did, um, we did, um, armbands with colors. So instead of just seeing black shirts or whatever, the company shirts is, we had colored arm bands, your lighting, that's yellow, you're seeing it, that's red, you know, and then we change it throughout the day, as you know, okay, this come, you know, say, say one, one division got done sooner than the other boom.
Speaker 4 00:21:37 We kicked it right into, they got another color. So it helped out tremendously with your end and my end. Cause you know how it is, you're looking around a ballroom, you see a gaggle of 10 people standing over there going, who are they? And who do you, what are you working for? And you're wasting time, it's wasting energy and you know, Hey, okay, well, Oh your audio, you're on break. So, you know, that's the way it should be. So I found that the color man deal works really good. So that's during this area, then we have show, call days, usually show calls more. And most part, we don't have that many that run show calls on us. It's a huge show that we need guys. So for the most part, those are probably your 18 guys. I always try to make it my 18 guys, my best guys, if they were available because that's like a little reward for them to get the day rate, they get to get the food, you know, all that for, for freelance.
Speaker 4 00:22:21 That's a big thing, you know, Oh, I got the heat, you know, you know how to, so, but anyways, that's kind of a bonus for them. It's usually a pretty light day. You know, you're, you're moving set pieces here and there on and off, you know, you're basically helping the stage manager out, not that big of a deal. Um, I know that on your end, a lot of times during show, we had to be kind of fluid with about five or six guys. So I kept five or six guys that are on kind of, um, Taner like, Hey, I, you know, if you pick up something, I get it. But if you're available, can you be on call for me? If we need some, maybe we had to strike something or a show flow, went different all of a sudden, so they'd be available if we need an overnight or something like that. So, and then we get to the strike. Um, usually I tried not to bring my, my show crew onto the strike. Most of the time you're going to have to, no matter what, um, I never really charged turnaround on that, uh, or over, you know, if I can I talk to the guys, Hey, you're getting show days. So overtime isn't really feasible because you're not really doing much. You know, most of your day is spent sitting back there bored as heck, trying not to fall asleep right on your phone, up there and have
Speaker 5 00:23:26 A phone. So, you know, you know, it's the same
Speaker 4 00:23:29 Deal as you know, the new guys. They, they always look at you like, well, we haven't had our break yet. Well, you've been sitting back here for three hours doing nothing. I think we're doing just by a show called day. If you don't understand that, I'm not saying anything that nobody don't know that's been an impact. So anyways, so, you know, so then strike comes. We do the same thing, 30 minutes before, you know, everybody gets there. Um, the hardest part of that, I'm not going to lie. I show those over because then we got guys kinda allow and in the back be allowed, you know, you know, that deal. If we got to show that if the final session runs over, it's the hardest part is trying to keep everybody together. It's, you know, it's really hard, especially on the bigger ones we'd run into that.
Speaker 4 00:24:07 So, you know, that's something we always worked on trying to make sure that happened good. And then we went into strike, pack them, trucks up and got out. And then usually I want to say on the billing side of it, I always tried to do at least 15 days after show. This is my hardest fight. And what I love that, that TDS and and show managers know that we're not here. Gear does not require to pay their electric bill gear does not require to eat gear does not require to that. So when they go, well, all my trades do 30 days or 60 days, that's not feasible in the labor field. I'm sorry guys. And if you don't, if you don't have a heart understand that, you know, the labor company really needs to be paid at least 10 days out the 15 days out that way they can turn around because the checks for them are going to take four to five days to clear for us, you know, unless they have direct deposit set up, you know, I try to push direct deposit.
Speaker 4 00:25:03 We're going to W2's with a lot of our guys now. So we're trying to make it almost like a company company per se, even with freelance. So they get other benefits, especially since COVID hit, but if I can stress anything, TD, stop looking at it, like it's geared, it's not gear. You know, it's not a gear that's going from the show to another show right away. It's people's lives people with children, families, and they, and, and we all know this freelance industry is a week, the week people, 99% of them. They don't, they don't, a lot of them don't save. Right. And they don't do this, but they're good at what they do. So the sooner I can get a check to them, the better I will say this. I know as a company, we require 50% upfront. Jordan. I try to pay a couple of the first couple of days, like the end day and maybe a couple show days and then pay the rest after. So it's not like it's just sitting in my pocket. You know, if we're always, we always tried to pay at least two days up front, a few days up front from what, you know, right away,
Speaker 0 00:26:00 You get a deposit. So, I mean, you could easily pay the load in pay, you know, pay the first half at a minimum. Yeah. I'm with you. And 10 days on labor, I think is max in my, in my opinion. Um, and really, truly, I think moving forward from the COVID world, um, you know, I think we need to look at and revise what our, what our terms are. Um, you know, I know some companies that have tried to get 90 and 120 day terms, that stuff, I just, you know, I'm sorry I get that it from a, from an economic standpoint, you know, people are trying to move things into different zones and whatnot, but I just, you know, our industry is very different compared to many others and we need to, uh, you know, we need to find ways to make it work for the people, because that's what it is. You're dealing with the people, um, right. So getting all the way through a job and then once you're through a job and it's done with, you know, you look back, you see all the stuff you did and didn't do, how, what are you using to manage all of those steps? Or is there software? Is there applications, documents, things like that.
Speaker 4 00:27:10 Right. And, and getting into that, Jordan, I use Excel spreadsheets and we manage it from the rates. We're getting paid to the rates, we're paying out, it's all spreadsheet driven. Um, I also try to do like a synopsis after the show. Um, and I got to get better at it is talking with the TDS and, and go, and Hey, you know, this is what we ran into. But you know, when the, when the, when the industry is booming, we don't have time to think, let alone try to do a synopsis on the last year we just did. But you know, but we, and you've talked a lot at other shows when we, you know, okay, we're done with this one. Now we're on this one, but remember this one, but here's what I ran into during that when we have time. So, you know, and it helps our industry a lot.
Speaker 4 00:27:50 So I love doing that. The Mark airings of the world, you know, Michael chances and all them guys are great about man, give me feedback, tell me what you think. You know, well, let's work together on everything to make it better. Next time, you know what, man, maybe we looked at this, we should've had six carps instead of five or eight electricians instead of six. And that would have made our life easier. And you know, I kind of had them in the budget, but I was thinking, uh, you know, maybe we should have, and, and, and into my other labor company, guys, don't be scared to say, are you sure about that? You know, this looks like a pretty big install and you only have four carps on here, you know, are you sure you want to do that? Because I coming from the carpentry world, I know that we're one of the ones that get the, or what got six parents, we should be able to kill it.
Speaker 4 00:28:35 You know what I'm saying? And I know for my stage, that's the hardest rate to do in local labor is to get the carbs. But for the most part electricians and an audio video and lighting, and this is nothing against my lighting and all them guys in my brother's there because they have the hardest job in the world. You know, for the most part, we can get guys that can run cables and all that. And, and the technical stuff you're doing anyway, I've been out there with them, you know, from my, my buddy, Chris, who's this, uh, um, uh, an awesome cat man, but for the most part, you know, he's like, I gotta do a lot of this myself anyway, you know, and that kind of thing, but the carp rate is hard. And the thing is, is they, they take the carp calls, you know, I need sick carts, but they ain't got, they don't have, they're, they're very hard to find unless they're, uh, like down here is, uh, you know, the union, it's just not union guys.
Speaker 4 00:29:25 You know, it's hard to find really good parts. They have their own tools and all that. So when you're trying to build screens and build stuff, it's hard. So a lot of times I know other companies that I've worked for, that people didn't find out that they were carps till the day they got on the show and they didn't know what they're doing. So it doesn't help show at all. It hurts it. So, yeah, but I do, I do do the spreadsheets, um, and it tracks everything. And, and that goes back to even before, when we first started talking about our numbers, right from the beginning, um, I'm building a show set from that, that starts. So I'm filling all the calls and then as it progresses and goes out and it makes it so much easier to change on the fly and, you know, who's there and who's not supposed to be there, you know, cause not, you're not going to have a crew steward or lead on every Avenue of that show for some companies, some companies don't have a crew lead if it's less than four guys, you know? So I got a designate, somebody in that group to kind of make sure they tell me what's up and they got there. Right. And who they're talking to and stuff like that, which is all part of that whole spreadsheet system. There's, you know, contact, like, let's say you use you as an example and have Gordon, Jordan, or Jordan Goodfellow on the top, your phone number, your email, everything that they would need if on a show who do I contact? You know, stuff like that. So yeah. Well,
Speaker 0 00:30:44 Good. I think that, uh, being organized is a great thing. That's what we need. The more organized we are. Uh, the more people are communicated with the better off everybody is the better shows we have, uh, the better that everything is executed. Um, is that the goal, right? That's right. And once you're organized, you get onsite, you got guys there. Um, what are you watching for? What are you looking at on site? What are you seeing? What are you addressing? How are you, um, making sure that you get the most out of the guys that are working for you?
Speaker 4 00:31:14 Well, I look as an overview. I'm looking at who are my, who are my guys that are kind of slacking, who's lazy, who who's kind of in the group, but not hanging out with the group. Um, I was always constantly and, and my other partners and other companies at the time were constantly walking around, Hey man, what are you doing? Oh, wow. What's so-and-so until that, till that lead said, no, no, no, they're okay. They're on a break. They've been busting their butt. I gave them 10 minutes to go smoke or that, or whatever. We'll get something to drink. You know, something like that until then there I was all over him, uh, trying to make sure that they're in the right spot at the right time. Because the worst thing you want as a labor company is your TD doing that for you. You know, if the TD is watching his labor there, we got bigger issues because you need to got way more important things to be worrying about. Where, why is this guy here? This guy there. So
Speaker 0 00:32:08 I must have irritated the crap out of you then
Speaker 4 00:32:10 You always did, but that's okay. We had a handled every time. I'd tell my son, Dylan, go hang out with Jordan, keep them busy. Oh, Dylan graduated Jordan just as a little side note.
Speaker 0 00:32:24 Congratulations. That's awesome. Good for him.
Speaker 4 00:32:27 So you've been doing it for awhile and you know, you met him. So
Speaker 0 00:32:32 Keeping the guys got to keep me busy, you know, keep me distracted, I guess, so that you can hide all the hide, all the guys that are short on the bathroom.
Speaker 4 00:32:42 So, but no, but that's, that's a lot of it. Um, you gotta make sure that the guys that you got are good and going to be where they're at, but you know, you, you know, in a 50 plus call, you're going to have some people that either, like you said, been working in their title or, or, you know, they, they had an all night vendor the night before and they're hung over or, you know, they they're that smoker guy that really needs a cigarette every 10 minutes. So you gotta watch them guys, you know,
Speaker 6 00:33:08 Um, or, or, or do I,
Speaker 4 00:33:11 I have, maybe something's not ready. And how are we, I'm always thinking for you, maybe, maybe trust isn't off yet. And all the departments are behind. How can we make this better? Like, can we move some things here to help get trust up or, you know, that type of thing. And that's when I would come to say you or somebody else and go, yo, what if we did this? Or, you know, cause a lot of times, you know, especially when we're slammed, when we got a ton of shows and you got one day install, man, we get way behind trust wasn't off. Or this truck is late and stuff like that. How, how do we manage that on and not get you into too much overtime or turn around or because schedules are tight. So during that, I'm trying to look at other ways that we can help you by moving manpower around. So I'm always, always eyeballing. I'm watching, I'm watching
Speaker 6 00:33:56 Our weeds, our soups, you know, our way,
Speaker 4 00:33:59 You know, directors, our lighting guys, our lead, are they looking frustrated? Maybe I got a guy that we should switch out. If he's not, you know, they can be the best electrician in the world or the best lighting guy in the world. And they're just not there. They're clashing with the guy that is really running the show. You know, maybe it's better for them to go be video. And I take my video guy here and you know, you all had them guys that come on the show and look at the plans for the first time, but act like, why aren't we doing it like this? Well, I know I just looked at it 30 days. I've been looking at it for six months, but you know, better than me that looked at it today. You know how that works. But yeah, for the most part, I got to say, all these guys are only saying that because they care and they really are thinking that maybe they can make it faster for you or for them.
Speaker 4 00:34:43 And for the most part, you know, I always try to be on that. Well, you know, you're probably right, but here's what we're going to do. This is the guy that's running it and it's his show. So we're going to do it his way. So I'm always looking for that kind of stuff and that's a never ending process. And then we get the brains. So making sure if it's a split call where we got different times, making sure the right guys are getting braked at the right time, making sure the guys that are not supposed to be break or guiding break in and they're kind of getting away, you know, and then going around and doing that aspect, same with the lunch breaks, whether it's paid or if it's a 30 minute paid, we've got to make sure we get eight and get back. Or if it's an hour walk away, you're back in an hour, not an hour and 20, not an hour and 15 an hour.
Speaker 4 00:35:25 You know, you want to come back and 55 that's on you, but don't start working until that hour. Because most of the time that means you got, then you've got a super who jumps in and they're trying to be on, I had five more minutes, get that smoke that I couldn't get, you know, for two days it's okay. You know, that type of thing. So it's a never ending process. It goes through the whole show and that same thing with, with, um, uh, the, the show crew. If you've got your show crew down, even though, even if I'm not scheduled to be there, I'd probably there most of the time anyway, um, making sure that I've got your ends covered and those guys are out thinking, well, it's my 15 minute break. You know, I, I was gone, but yet we gotta, we gotta set change and we gotta get on it. Now, you know, we need these chairs up, you'll get your break, you know? But like I said, I always try to put my guys that show crew, know what show crew lights is, is basically you're breaking all day and you work some so. And that's the God honest truth.
Speaker 0 00:36:17 I love that. But
Speaker 4 00:36:19 Yeah. And then, and then even getting into, when the truck's done walking around, um, I don't know how a lot of your other companies do it, but we always went as a company and said, all right, let's do a five minute walk, pick up as much trash that we can. That's ours. If it looks important, let somebody know, you know, just because something can get left behind or, or, you know, the cleaner we make the room. Sometimes you're not even there because you had to get off. Cause you got your next show. You know, I've had that with many it's needy is they're leaving it in our hands to make sure that the place looks good at the end. So they want us back. Um, and that's what I tried to tell the guys, you know, if there's a problem, like they're getting along with somebody, I'm like, you gotta remember, these are the people that pay our salaries guys and our money and our, and our paycheck.
Speaker 4 00:37:00 Like they can piss you off all you want it's money. Don't get mad because we're going an hour over. That's an hour over. You're getting paid over time. What are you trying? Is this your first day at the industry? Oh, come on. This is what we do, you know, Oh my God, I'm only getting 10 hours sleep. All right. You're getting probably three more than me, you know? So I, you know, they don't want to hear that. So I always try to tell the guys, because I've seen both sides of it. You know, I've been this super guy with it. I've always tried to tell him, you know, like, look man, work hard, keep your head down, do what you're supposed to do. And not only will you make money, you'll grow in the industry. You know, don't hesitate to ask me question. Um, the, the last but not least on that is is.
Speaker 4 00:37:38 And then at the end of the show, I always get with all my guys together right after we check out, we tell, Hey, great job. Biggest thing is I try to at the beginning, have a safety, a little quick safety meeting everybody. I tell them my, my favorite thing is we him with 10 fingers and toes, unless you already lost one. Then you got nine or eight or whatever, but I want you to walk away with that too. And that's, that's the key. If it doesn't feel safe, say something, nobody is going to yell at you. And if they do, I will get on them. Because if you don't feel safe, you know, Forman things, all that, because that's a key, like you said, we carry big things, heavy things, and we have to do crazy things. We all know it. The maker show go, we do crazy things. So I tend to pride myself that we, we haven't had injuries, you know, very few and everything's been minor. So, you know, sprains and sprains, nothing broken. So that's,
Speaker 0 00:38:30 I think it's awesome, dude. Um, fantastic being on is one thing. And having your guys ready, available, that's awesome. But you have to get the best guys to make sure that they do the job as well as they possibly can. And that involves the one thing that we all hate to talk about, which is the money, the greenbacks, the Benjamins, um, everybody hates to spend it, but they want the absolute most as possible for what they are spending. And you guys of course are no stranger to that to find in the best labor, the best people. Uh, what are you charging for when you're, you know, when you're coming in at an hourly rate for certain positions, which all differ, whether you've got a technical specialist, a stagehand, uh, <inaudible> an LD, uh, what are you charging for? Kind of give us a little bit of detail about what is involved in all of that to educate us a little bit on why, you know, you charge what you charge and why you should charge what you charge.
Speaker 7 00:39:37 Right? No, I've seen it on both ends from when I started just as part of that labor crew up till now. Um, it's a cutthroat when it comes to labor, it seems like there's, there's a ton of companies out there. A lot of them do the underbid deal and then you're going to get the, you might get the fake it till you make it all the way up to attack. Depends on what they can get available. Um, I know we talked earlier a little about this. It's just the timing that that's going to be a big interior for. Everybody's the timing. The earlier you can get me lists the better guys I can get you what, especially in Orlando. Um, but what goes into the money side of it? You're basically what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to get you somebody that's not necessarily just like a lighting guy or a video guy.
Speaker 7 00:40:20 I'm getting you to that. I'll try to get you that all around stage. Who's done a little bit of everything. Now. I will go through your, your list of when you, when you give me your list of, Hey, I need like eight lighting guys, five video, I need some scene it guys. What I'm trying to find out is what, as I grow my crews and build my crews up, what is their strong suit? What is what I know if I give you, give it to your techs to say, Hey man, I'm giving you 10 guys. They know what they're doing, but also we can throw it here so that anybody that says they're getting a stage and for less than 20, 25 an hour, you don't really want those companies. I'm going to tell you the truth. Um, tell you the truth because the good guys that have been in the industry longer, that's the minimum they're coming up through.
Speaker 7 00:41:02 Um, most of the time I'm paying 25, a guy that's just straight off the board. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not the say, you know, Hey, I'm making, you know, I'm gonna get guys at 18 an hour. Um, you know, there's going to be, sometimes I can sneak in a guy that I'm might be training and I've done it for you too, where I've, where I've gone. And, uh, actually put them at my cost and send them on with the crew, the train that being said, I tried to let you know that, um, for the most part you're paying for that skillset of guys, especially when you're in a, uh, on Orlando, something like that. There's a ton of companies coming in for shows and a ton of companies out there trying to get the same pool of guys. You might have 300 guys that we're all trying to grab out of Orlando.
Speaker 7 00:41:44 And we're also juggling timeframes when it comes to that, because these guys might be booked at one show for two days and your big, you know, your big install days the day after. So that's going to be a lot of the hit and miss on what you get. But for the most part, the 300 main crew guys that you're going to get out of Orlando are, are more than I would say, basic stagehands they're guys that you can get. And you know, you're going to trust them that they're going to show up on time, be they're going to have their tools. See if the guy has a layout of lighting, he knows that what a we go is, you know, we know what a, an led is. You know, we want to can, it can light it as what, uh, what a, what a par is, what a mover is, you know, stuff like that.
Speaker 7 00:42:23 Audio, the cable, all that stuff. How to do a breakout on tables. You know, I hear it all the time from an ease that the TD, Oh, they get these guys, but man, these guys are more festival cats like chase pushers, stuff like that. You know, the festival guys, they're getting more direction. It's more plug and play. That's the trust together. The lighting's already set up. You're, you're twisting casting, you know, your twist and Socos together. You know, you're putting breakouts together, ours when we're in those, those conferences is more of a hands-on. I need you to do the runs. You're no, you're doing your home runs. You're doing this. So I'm trying to find you guys that have that experience, not just the guy that's been on the road working, let's say with the James Thomas, which is more festival range. Now those guys are awesome at that. Don't get me wrong, but they're not more of the corporate setting that we're looking for for what we need for the timeframe. So that is the main amount of money you're going to pay us for that kind of person. Okay. If that makes sense
Speaker 0 00:43:19 Expertise, which I get, what are the other parts of that? You know, cause you're, you know, your Mark, you're not charging 25, $30 an hour for a stagehand when you're paying them that much. So there there's margin. I mean, it, it, it has to be there, um, you know, help us understand what else comes into that. What else are you paying for me now that, uh, you know, out in California, AB five has been passed, which is the, you know, the gig worker law, the way, you know, that changes payroll, that changes workers' comp. Talk to me about where, what are the percentages, give us an idea of how that looks so that people know, like when you're charging $40 an hour for someone there's, you know, $45 an hour, there's a reason. And it has to be that way specifically for making sure that those people are protected.
Speaker 7 00:44:12 Right. And the big thing for me is, uh, your worker's comps, um, your liability insurance, stuff like that, that we must carry no matter what, even if it is a freelance 10 99 employee, um, I know a lot of the labor companies are going to W2's, but, um, the basics I'm trying to show is I'll do is I know right off hand, I'm paying to 25 an hour for my guys. Um, I try to keep it at 25. That's the main, that's the basic price for my guy. Then I'm going to add 10 to 15% on that as an admin fee for all of the running and that's the pre-imposed and changes. And you know how it is Jordan, you get that show, you start out with a certain amount of crew and maybe last minute we have to add or subtract stuff like that.
Speaker 7 00:44:53 Um, sometimes when I'm close up on dates, I have to, you know, I have to cut my crew call, but yeah, these guys are booked this and they could have booked something else. So I'll still pay them on it. And I probably to add that into that cost so that you're going to pay at say $40 an hour or 42 hours. Um, and then you have to, you have to put on some type of, um, liability is, is killing the, the labor industry. And what I mean by that is, is 20% of my cost to you is going out to that. And so
Speaker 0 00:45:28 For insurance, just liability insurance. Yeah.
Speaker 7 00:45:31 Yes. Liability or not the liability, I'm sorry. The workers' comp liability is about five to 10%, depending on what it is, because I've had shows where we've had to pay for stuff because our guys messed it up. So, you know, I try to keep a bigger policy on that, but that's just me. Cause I'm trying to cover a urine, you know, for you guys that way you don't have to worry about it. And the fly by night companies, a lot of them don't, they have very bad insurance. So you could run into some things, you know, I hear guys all the time, well, I can get, I can get, I can, I got a guy here, they'll do it for 33 an hour, but you're 42, you know, but what are they, are they doing the same things? We do you really, as a technical director or as a, as a project lead need to look into that because you're taking that risk on, you know, because if somebody gets hurt and they hit, they'll have recovered, that's falling back on you guys as a show, obviously. So that's, that's basically what you're looking at is I put about 50% into the basic pay. And then, um, um, about 30 to 35% of my insurances, which leaves me about a 10 to 15% profit, depending on what we're looking at.
Speaker 0 00:46:34 And that's what I'm going to do, profit. It's just admin cost at that point. I mean your title.
Speaker 7 00:46:39 Well, I try to add in that first 15% I kind of, or 10 to 15%, I kind of put, play that number in there. And I got mean, you've actually had discussions, Hey, why are you at a 15% admin? And I tried to, you know, that was kind of, and, and I know, I know this, you know, this industry, it's all what I can get the best amount of money for the least amount of price. And that's gotta be that way without, within a certain range. I know what me and you have talked and always negotiated that deal, have to say, Hey, I'm looking for this style guy. I will say a trend that I see going is more utility, more than upset. Hey, set, audio set, video, set lighting. And I think that becomes more timeframe issues because like if trust not up and we're backed off and then you don't just have lighting guys laying around, sitting around.
Speaker 7 00:47:23 We've got utility guys that can jump in elsewhere. So, um, I'm trying to go towards more of that, but I would say 50% of it is am I actual hard costs? And I will say 35% of it is insurance, which leads me about 15% profit, the, play it for another show or add people, or, you know, like I've said, there's times that I try to book two or three extra guys just in case I have call-outs. So we don't up shore. Um, I've a lot of times we'll take that out of my pocket if they, I'm not going to get rid of him on this. No, it makes no sense I'm going to pay him either way so we can have extra on the show. So I do not want to TDS that, learn that and think, well, I know Chris is going to put three or four extra on there, so I'll make my calls smaller, you know?
Speaker 0 00:48:01 Well, those guys aren't good. Those guys aren't guaranteed. And I can't, I can't rely on that as a technical director. If I look at that, Oh yeah, Chris led three guys on, I'm just going to make it 27 instead of 30 will. And then you send 27 because you couldn't, you didn't find the other guys and they all show up now I'm, I'm, you know, I I'm three guys shirt, so I just, I just sucked 30 hours out of the day of, of someone doing work. And you know,
Speaker 7 00:48:29 How many times do we underdo it. And then we end up with so much overtime that we should have just upped it by three more guys from the beginning. And we would have saved my money and also timeframes
Speaker 0 00:48:38 That's where 30 hours of straight time could save you 30 hours, 40 hours of OT from a number of other gods. So, uh, it makes perfect sense. Um, now labor has always been, um, you know, it's been something that everybody needs, but doesn't, they want to try and do it with as minimal as possible.
Speaker 7 00:49:06 And I feel like we're the red-headed stepchild. If that makes sense,
Speaker 0 00:49:09 I can understand that it's what happens. Um, but th there are always certain types of guys you need on every job. Um, what are the three types of guys that you're looking for? Girls, guys, guys, as a generic term here, this is not a sexist podcast by any means, um, people, what are the, you know, what are the three types of people that you're looking for, that you want on every show is you're trying to staff these things?
Speaker 7 00:49:39 Uh, I, I, I broke it down when I was in my thinking. I've never really expressed this before. Um, I broke it down into the alpha and the Bravo and the Charlie. I'm the alpha, you don't want too many alphas together in your groups. Um, so if you're breaking it down to lighting, video, audio scenic, um, to me, I always wanted one or two real alphas that could be like your leaders of the group that the go-to people. Yeah. Then I wanted those people that, that I called them the brothels. Those are the guys that are kind of gung-ho, but they're there. They're okay to be like, please show me what's up. And I'm going to go to town. And then I had the Charlies, which are bronze. Those are the people that are doing the hardest stuff from the pole or the cable, but not necessarily maybe doing the breakouts, they might be newer in the industry.
Speaker 7 00:50:21 So you have some, you know, I always wanted experience. I wanted people that are, and then I wanted some people that were still kind of up and coming because they have that initiative, but want to also learn so we can kind of train them a little bit to how we do it. So, um, that was what I was trying to do on each set. Now I will say from my scenic side, I wanted people that didn't mind lifting too. I mean, a lot of times you'll get on here. And sometimes I felt like scenic was almost last to get on. Some of my TDS were last to be thought of, and they didn't learn about seeing it until they got here. And you're getting some seven couple, seven year old guys, the two chicks, or I'm sorry, two ladies that could not lift, lift anything.
Speaker 7 00:51:02 And that's nothing against them because I've had some amazing, amazing ladies that can do anything. And I would have them on any day of the week, but you might have even guys, I mean, you got these skinny little 80 pound beards that they can't lift anything at work or lifted 20 foot panels in the air. And I'm like, how am I supposed to do this? You know? So, um, I also look at them that way for you too. So when I'm, I'm planning out my schedule, I try to find my strong suits. And, and if you've been on the labor game long enough, you've got a feel for your people, you know, where they're going to be their strengths and weaknesses. According them in that strength is what, what you're paying for. Also, when you're talking about, what am I getting for that you're getting from us that we know who works good together.
Speaker 7 00:51:40 We know how we can get it done. You know, you're not, you don't want to end up with, with a bunch of the people that are, you know, all the time. They're like, what time are we getting out of here? What time are we getting out of here? You know, you want to have a mix of that. You want the guy that's in there that is like, kind of like that, but then you got the alpha, who's like, Hey man, this is our industry. We stay till we're done. You know, this, you know, when you sign up for this gig. So you know, that kind of thing. Um, and that's the biggest thing you guys coming in. You don't necessarily know the local crew unless you've used the same company year after year, after year after year and the same people come every time. But those, those are few and far between most of the time it's a different crew or different.
Speaker 7 00:52:17 And, um, on that note, I I've been even doing some of this right before the pandemic was talking to people about putting, like, if they had multiple shows, say, Jordan, you have three shows going in somewhat the same throughout. Like, Hey, I go here, here and here. Like, if you can get it so I can hire these guys to bring it. And we were paying for Airbnb and putting like 20, 30 guys up in there and then had that same crew follow you guys around. But after the second show and the third show, you know, they're in there, they know exactly how all your technical guys, all want their stuff done. So you know how that is? That's, that's the key is just, you know, they, they know exactly what they want. So I know, I know that with that's the kind of thing I try to build, and that's why my costs are what they are, because I'm trying to build you the best people possible. I can say, yeah, I can get you guys for 32, but you're going to have some dude that's new coming. Unless my second gig,
Speaker 0 00:53:09 You're going to go, go down to labor max and pick up the, pick up the temps. And then,
Speaker 7 00:53:16 Or you got the full sail guy that thinks he's running the board. No, you're pushing the board. That's right. I've had that one too. So what does, there's nothing wrong with full sale? That's just my example. So, but anyways, um, you will, you know, like I said, a lot of people liked the freelance because, um, the, with the union there are added costs. Um, you know, with that, uh, I love the union. I've used IRC all the time, but for a lot of our shows, um, it's just a matter of your budget. It really that's what it all comes down to. It's a matter of the budget of the show and what you have <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:53:47 Plan. You know, if you know, you're walking into a union house versus a non-union house, one of the biggest issues I've always seen is that, you know, someone's going to pick a location based on where they want to go, but then they're going to take last year's budget and apply it to this place. Um, and you know, if I'm going from Orlando, Florida to New York city, one show to the next, you know, I, it's just the nature of the beast. My labor is going to triple because that's what happens. And so I can't be expected as a technical director to fit the same show or similar in the same budget from a labor standpoint, if I'm looking at a union house versus a non-union house.
Speaker 7 00:54:29 Right. And that's what used to bother me too, is, you know, I know, I know as a technical director, you've dealt with both, you know, and you know that with like union, every crew always is going to have a stew, you know, no matter what I, you know, they're, they're not sending a crew out with a couple of guys, but I've had a lot where, cause I'm freelance where there'll be like, Hey man, I got three guys, but I don't want to pay for a lead. And I'm like, well, that's great, but who are my guys going to be talking to you? And they're like, Oh me. And then you get in there and you're, you're, you know, they're like, well, where's your guys at? I'm like, well, they came, they couldn't find you, you know? And then they were upset. And you know, they're kind of like down in your a little bit, but I'm like, well, that's why we usually try to have a lead in every call because then, you know, then there, and then also we haven't touched base on it yet is minimums. Um, I try to do five and tens. I have gone four and eight. Um, the standard lately seems to be five and tens. I know that's human standards. Um, and, and the thing is, is like, I try to tell people that it's like these guys get, when we schedule my crew, they could have picked up other work, especially my good guys. And so it irks me when we're in the trench. Well, I'm just going to pay you for the three or do you mean pay the other four, please?
Speaker 0 00:55:39 Some it's a minimum. I mean, that's the, that's, that's the beginning. And the end of that conversation is you have to do that that way and it doesn't work any other way. And then you'll be up front with guys in the beginning and say, listen, you'll be upfront with your client and say, Hey, this is a five hour. This is a 10 hour. But then also tell you as the labor, okay, I've got, you know, these loaders are going to be a half day. They're going to be five hours. And that's just is what it is. And, and I learned the hard way a couple of times where, um, you know, I went from, uh, working with some of the independent labor companies here in Denver. One of them does a five hour and then they do a extra six hour if you really need them to, but then it goes straight to a full day. And I know that. And so I got, I got stuck and I ended up paying the guys because I'm not going to stiff them on that. And, and I, I didn't know. And I didn't ask the right questions,
Speaker 7 00:56:32 You know, and, and, and on that point is if your labor, company's good, they're coming to you an hour before, half an hour before just reminding you, Hey, we're coming up on it. And if they're not, then you really need to look at what am I, what am I hiring? Because they should be letting you know it. Well,
Speaker 0 00:56:48 That was a situation where they didn't tell me, you know, they didn't, they actually didn't send, um, a competent lead. That was, you know, I had eight guys on the ground and, you know, they didn't really send it. They just said, Oh, Hey guys, showing up at this place. And there was nobody really there to kind of guide them and direct them beyond myself. And we were on a baseball field. Uh, so we're pushing stuff, you know, 150 yards, a hundred yards. I mean, so, but, um, as these guys, either way, um, communication, and then making sure that there's someone that is in leadership there that is able to communicate, uh, in everything that they do. Um, right. How should guys coming out, coming out of the COVID, uh, the shroud of insanity that we've been in the cloud, what should we have the cloud?
Speaker 0 00:57:42 What should guys be doing that are looking for work that are wanting to get back with, you know, companies there've been some companies VTS went out of business, um, you know, and so there, there are other, there are going to be other labor companies that are going to go out of business that, that aren't going to exist anymore. Uh, the market's going to open up what should, what should people that are just coming into the industry, stagehands, what should they be doing real quick to find work to, to broaden their horizons, make their network bigger.
Speaker 7 00:58:13 So what I would recommend to them is a three-step process. One is talk to your peers, your peers know who's out there. Um, I, even myself as an owner, um, I've had, like, I tell guys that, like, my idea is I gotta keep you busy. I don't want you to go anywhere else like outside. So I'd say, Hey, have you talked to, you know, um, that's a good choice. Have you talked to, let's say, um, uh, uh, EPS, have you talked to these guys? You know, all the companies that around blackout, uh, Redwood, uh, 24 seven. Yeah. Talk to them, get your schedules full. Like, I, I hate that when I hear that companies get mad, like, Oh, you can, you know, you can do, like, I hear this a lot. Well, I would work for you, Chris. But they said, if I don't do these two days, if I do, if I miss this one day, I can't do the rest of the show.
Speaker 7 00:58:59 Yep. Okay. That's not cool to me because I'm like, as a company, I would hope you would understand that. All right. Well, I can still this. I can probably get away with him, but I could use them for these other days that we would work with each other. But a lot of times that doesn't happen. It's a more of a cutthroat deal. Even though these are independent contractors, everybody tends to forget that these guys are eight, basically independent contractors. So, but you don't, they don't want to get blackballed. I understand that completely. They're trying to sell their books. So I always try to help out the guys and say, look, I'm, I've had guys call me three days in front of show. Hey man, I've got to show that it's going to be a full day and not a half day. I'll try to switch them out. I would rather see them get a full day and a half, and then I'm trying to work it out. So, um, talk to your peers. Number one, talk to your peers, get on, call them email, get an email, get a phone number, a text. You know, I'll tell everybody that's trying to call me 24 seven with 18 billion people is horrible. Texting me.
Speaker 8 00:59:53 I'm so-and-so I got your name. Hey, I'm looking at work.
Speaker 7 00:59:56 You know, here's my good number. Um, second, if you have a new phone number, make sure you re text everybody. Cause if you, if you're not up to date on your numbers with everybody, yeah. It's never going to get called back. I've had plenty of guys. I've tried to text him and say, Hey, I've got a show and it's no longer available. Um, number three would be Facebook, Facebook, social media. Um, there's a ton of groups out there AB installs. There's a freelance. There's a freelance one. I think you're on that one too. I remember right. I know a bunch of them, but we're on all on these groups. You know, there's the, uh, the pirates won. There's the, the station or a stagehand brotherhood, I think is out there. There's a ton of we'll get on that. Um, and it's real easy to do.
Speaker 7 01:00:36 Um, also on Facebook, if you search, you start searching like audio video companies, you can, you can bring them up. And then all of a sudden you'll notice your health Cancun, and you can, you can, uh, start liking all those companies. Send them a quick, a quick message. Hey, so I'm to do all this, this entire pandemic. This is what I've been doing. Marketing. I've been marketing myself now that I'm not with general anymore or, or scenic works because it is Selby sold. Now, um, I'm able to go out there and really work as so now. Um, I'm calling, I'm hitting up all these companies, Hey, I'm going to make it through it. I haven't seen a company in a labor company. Let's talk. Oh, no problem. As soon as it picks up, I got you, you know, cold, cold calling as they call. It works.
Speaker 7 01:01:20 Especially with labor. Everybody wants to know about labor. Where can I find somebody? The third and most important to me is, is have a resume, know what you can do. Um, I'm not going to force feed you. I'm going to know if you're good or not, but I'm going to ask, I'm not going to, what's your, what's your specialty. If you don't know anything, like I am, I, I can work as anyone in the two and LT. I know that you're brand new, which is okay. I don't mind branding. Tell me you're brand new. I can work you in. I might be able to work you in because if I'm running the scenic, I know there's certain things I can have you do and still be productive. So we can put you on that and I can teach you some stuff or I can bring you on and I can pay you to work if that makes sense.
Speaker 7 01:01:59 So I think those are the three big things is let everybody know what you can do. I know fake the biggest term is fake it till you make it. That's great to a point, let some people know quietly off to the side that you're working with. As I'm newer to this, can you help me? And they will. Everybody will help you on this. Now I know, you know how it is. We're under tight schedules. It's not good to go up who you're working with, your main, your main tech and go, Hey, I got no idea what I'm doing here, because he's going to look and go, what did I just get? You know what I'm saying? Then he's looking at you, Jordan and going, what did you get? You know what I'm saying? So you gotta be careful on every crew that's out there. You're always going to have a couple people that are newer.
Speaker 7 01:02:39 You just got to do it. Right? So that's the big thing I would say is, is definitely get on Facebook, call your call your peers, get on that. Talk to everybody, especially right now in COVID there's so many people out there that are struggling and we just gotta keep them informed. Like, as soon as I know, I got some stuff working, I'm going to send out a mass text. Hey, I've got some stuff that's starting to work. I don't know what yet. I don't know where, but soon we'll have some stuff I need to know. Who's still out there, you know? And I'm scared. I'm scared for it. So you the truth, I don't know how many people have lost their phone privileges. You know, don't have a phone anymore or moved out of state, got a different job. You know, that's the other thing that we all as TVs and company owners need to look at is will our labor be there?
Speaker 7 01:03:22 Um, I truly, right now I'm wondering how many guys are we going to have on the backside of this, that didn't find a full-time job or, or something else. And, and can't take the chance anymore, you know, so, but they can do that, you know? And then, um, like I said, Nicole calls stuff works. It really does. I've learned so many references works great. Um, you know, uh, you'll hook up with a couple people in this industry when you start out or when you've been working for awhile, that they have contacts with a lot of the groups from like Redwood, uh, blackout, um, um, show masters, people like that. You get on these call lists, man, you can, you can early work at good. But the biggest core thing I would say to them is it's on them. They have to do the work to get their work. You know what I mean? They have to do the legwork. If they don't, they're just going to be one of them guys. And don't be a pay case pusher all your life. Yeah. If I could tell him anything, when he has a chance to learn, learn, even if you got to do it on your own a little bit,
Speaker 0 01:04:19 What, uh, what as we come out of this, what would, what would you say as we're kind of wrapping, wrapping up at the end to two things that these guys should be doing? And I think they kind of are going to go along with what you just said about finding work, but, um, two things that they can be doing to be more gig ready. The next time they set foot into, um, you know, into another ballroom arena festival, ground, uh, what should they be doing now? We've been in COVID for six months. People are not that they're rusty, but it takes a minute and shake the cobwebs off. What are two things they should be doing to be more, to be more gig ready? The next time they set foot in that arena of live event production?
Speaker 7 01:05:06 Well, number one is, is hone your craft. Um, you can Google YouTube, tons and tons of video that can help you hone your stage hand craft from whether it's even cable management or, um, gear, um, study up on gear. Uh, it, we have this thing called the internet that a lot of us didn't have when we first started, you can go on there and learn about lighting, audio, video, all this stuff online there's manuals there, hone your craft on to everything. Whether it's simple things to start out stage left stage, right? Downstage upstage, stuff like that, not learn knots. You know, if you want to be a rigger out there, go up and look videos about rigging and what to do and what you can do. And that way you, you educate yourself, educate yourself, take this time right now to get yourself more valuable than the guy next to you.
Speaker 7 01:06:01 The more valuable and reliable you are, the more work you're going to get. So this is the time right now that you take and you hone your skills or you go out there and you look for things that I want to do. Hey, maybe you want to become a lighting designer. Start looking into that. What can I do? What can I learn online? Look up lighting designer and Google it and see what comes up and how tos and stuff like that. Right? It's as simple as that, though, if you, if you show that initiative, somebody is going to jump on and say, this kid might have it. You know, Hey, let's try to see how it works out. Um, number two is, is get together with your people that everybody, you know, when you can and, and, and just talk, you know, I've talked to probably, I would say, 30 to 40 stagehands over the last couple of months, just talking and talking about the industry and trends and what we think is going to happen.
Speaker 7 01:06:51 Um, it's going to be a madhouse, I think when it does release, um, you want to be ahead of that curve. Well, so once again, make sure you're on those lists. Make sure you find out who's still there. I mean, it's simple as emailing companies, they might not even be there anymore. You don't know, so you don't want to rely on, well, I know that ETS is going to call me next week when it comes. If it hits, no they're not here anymore or whatever they might be here. I don't know. I don't know that story. So I'm just saying, um, or you might think, wow, I know, I know scenic works used to get a ton of work and sometimes they'd hire us on. Well, they, they were sold. They're not there anymore. You know, that I think is going to be the key.
Speaker 7 01:07:27 And, and I've even done that myself as a business owner, trying to email people, you know, I've texted, you, I've texted a ton of the TDS. I know and say, Hey, we're still out here just to like, you know, I know where it's nothing now, but keep me in your thoughts. Oh yeah. Um, uh, Michael, a chance to actually hit me up and said, Hey man, I was just thinking about you. You want to make sure everything's good? You know? So it works both ways. I know a bunch of them, a bunch of the TDS and all that, the really, really good ones. They've reached out to a lot of their guys that they worked with a lot just to say, Hey, I know I just want to make sure everything's good. How are you doing? You know, we gotta back to each other. That's why I got this in the background, the reset, you know, reset events, um, that it's hard, but I, I really truly feel that I'm hoping that things will start to loosen up.
Speaker 7 01:08:09 I'm in Florida. We're seeing a lot of loosening up of all these restrictions. So, um, um, I implore all my freelance, all my union guys, if you're union, get with your studios, get with your union house mates, see how everything's going. You know, be proactive in your union. It could be proactive in there and you can do, you can make change. You can make sure you're also, if you're freelance, man, if they don't know your name, you're never getting on a gig. That's the key, you know, unless you're getting a dire straight, Hey, you know somebody, well I know this guy. And then even then it's a crap shoot. You're like, Ooh, I don't know. I want to make sure this guy knows what he's doing. If you call me up, Hey, you can call me up. Anytime any of these guys that want to know what's going on, they'll let them know. I'll help them out. You know, even if they just need to talk, man. So, you know, that's the biggest thing. Get your name out there.
Speaker 0 01:08:58 So market, so market yourself learn as much as you can. Those are the tiers. Those are the two things. That's awesome. Dude,
Speaker 7 01:09:04 Make yourself more valuable than the guy next to you.
Speaker 0 01:09:07 That's right. That's the, that's the game right there. That's the whole game is to be not indispensable, but more valuable. Um, and be more valuable by making yourself more valuable rather than tearing someone else down and telling everybody you're more valuable. So,
Speaker 7 01:09:25 Well, hopefully we come out of this Jordan with a better attitude all around between everybody. And what I mean by that is, is from top to bottom. You know, we all get burnt out after so many shows and shows and shows in a row. We've had this time now to sit back maybe where we won't be, we'll be a little hungrier. We'll be a little more, Hey, more willing to work with each other. Just glad to be at that 24 hour loaded boom. Well,
Speaker 0 01:09:49 Okay. That I draw the line there. I'm not, I will not be looking forward to a 24 hour loaded after this is done. I'll take like 18,
Speaker 7 01:09:58 But give me, give me, uh, I'll give you
Speaker 0 01:10:01 Hours to sleep. I mean, as long as I can get that, I'll be okay.
Speaker 7 01:10:05 Yeah. As long as you're not sending you thinking while you live in Orlando, it's, it's not that far for you to drive home after 18 hours. No, it's still an hour early. It does an hour away from everyone outside. Yeah. Lando, sir.
Speaker 0 01:10:15 I know, man. I know. Well, awesome. Well, thank you so much. Great talking to you really appreciate you taking the time today and I hope you have a wonderful time. Hope you guys hope business comes back super fast. And uh, we see a huge resurgence in the live events world here in the next couple of months.
Speaker 7 01:10:33 So Jordan, one last thing for anybody, we at Chrome productions are a nationwide company. So we will go anywhere. Um, we're working with all the companies and the nice thing is, is as we're going to see you soon again, because I'll be out here again, but I do, um, seen it and labor so I can do some. I can actually help you out on pricing. Some of that, if we're doing both. So just to let everybody know that, feel free to contact me anytime and do big shows. Small shows you name it as you've seen with me before. So we're looking forward. We're looking forward to a great 20, 21. We just need to get out of this cloud of uncertainty.
Speaker 0 01:11:06 I need to get out of 20, 20, get out of 2020. We just need to dig our way all the way through. Let's just finish, finished digging to the other side of the world and will, and it will come out on the other side, right? It can't be any worse. I'm in Florida. There's like 85 hurricanes hanging out there right now. I mean, come on. That's right. Awesome. Thank you.
Speaker 9 01:11:27 Thanks so much for taking the time to listen today. I know that as a professional each and every one of us want to be better tomorrow than we were today. That's why we've created the gig ready podcast. This is a place where professionals can come and look at what they're doing. Look at how they're doing it and get better. Every single day. We are solely value for value. We're not going to take corporate interests. We're not going to take sponsorship money. We want you to get better solely because that's what you want. So please give us some feedback. I want to get better. I want to create better podcasts. I want to create better events, just like you do. So if you have some value, you want to give back ideas, thoughts, questions, even, even the ability to be a little critical at times. I would love to hear from you. Thank you so much. I hope you have a great day. Stay safe out there and stay. Get ready. <inaudible>.
