Episode 21 - Touring Stage Manager with Ethan Merfy

Speaker 0 00:00:00 The next episode of gig ready is here. I know you're excited, but before we get started, let me remind you of just a few things. Number one, value. We want to provide value to you. So please tell us, email us, message us on Instagram. Send us a DM, tell us how we're doing. Tell us how we can help you, let us know what you want to see in here so that we can get better. Secondly, if this podcast has been valuable to you, share it with somebody, tell a friend, let them know what you're doing, let them know what you're listening to because we are going to help as many people as we possibly can. I want to say thank you so much for the value that you provide each and every week as we supply more podcasts, more content and more exciting things for you to look forward to. I thank you for your dedication. Thank you for all the hard work you put in each and every day to become a better event professional, because this is the gig ready podcast. Speaker 1 00:00:58 <inaudible> Speaker 0 00:01:14 Good afternoon, everybody. Jordan Goodfellow here, gig ready? Oh my gosh. Now my, uh, my desk has decided to change Heights automatically as I push something over on it. But, uh, we're here today with Ethan Murphy. Uh, one, one of the greatest friends tour companions colleagues that I've ever had stage manager for Lincoln park. When we toured together for a number of years just came off the road with Halsy right before all of this insanity of COVID hit. And now we're talking to him today about stage management, Ethan. Thanks for being here, brother. How are you, how are you holding up and, uh, how how's the family doing? Speaker 2 00:01:53 Uh, hello, Jordan. Um, thanks for having me and hanging in there and it's some days better than others. I think that's normal. Um, but, uh, trying to stay busy cause boredom sucks, especially for people like us. Um, but all in all pretty well. Uh, now everybody say that trying to stay pretty well because, um, the mind it can go either way. And so I just try to stay busy and just try to focus on positive rather than yeah, Speaker 0 00:02:20 That's right, dude. The mental game is the hardest part about this whole thing. Um, I play the mental game every single day and um, I wake up in the morning and sometimes, you know, that thought hits you like, Oh crap, what's gonna when's this going to end? When's this. And, and you know, I have to physically sometimes make that shift of like, okay, Jordan and like talk to myself other like Jordan. Yeah, Speaker 2 00:02:47 Yeah. Like the, the realization I, you know, as I could tell people, the first, the first step of anything is, is recognized, is recognition. Yeah. You know? And so if you, if you can see or feel yourself going down to that dark, like for me specifically, if I feel that I'm starting to get in, usually fear faith is for me when I get in fear and the unknown and fear and stuff like that, uh, as I get older, I can catch myself in it and I just literally start telling myself all the positives I have in my life. Yeah. And, and, and, you know, and the track record that I have. And, you know, if, if I was to fail, you know, any time I failed in my, you know, in my past, it's always made me better. You know, it's always made me stronger. Um, so I'm 48 years old now. And I can't have my 27 year old fears fears when I was a 27 year old, God, am I going to, you know, I, I put pressure on myself to do a good job, you know, whatever that job is, but the fear of failure and stuff like that, uh, I try to, um, just recognize that that's not really a valid fear because, you know, failure to me is not trying or giving up that's right. You know, Speaker 0 00:03:59 So a hundred percent. And I agree with you, failure is when you come to that moment of not wanting to try anymore. Um, and that really is the true failure. And I spend a lot of time talking. I say, talking to myself, I hope not too much, I guess, talking out loud, my wife from around the corners, like, Hey, who are you talking to on the phone? I'm like, I was just talking to myself there. Um, but reminding myself of the things, I am grateful for the things that I can be thankful for, even though they might seem few at times, um, you know, right now, thankfully my family has their health and, and I've got two boys that love to play and they love to be around their dad. And, and my wife still likes to be around me. I've been home for like eight months and somehow we, you know, we're not divorced. Um, I'm incredibly grateful for that. Um, you know, I'm sure you understand that being home for a very long period of time and, uh, the, the tension that comes from, uh, relationships that aren't used to being around for months and months at a time Speaker 2 00:05:02 And is, is part of that for me, learning, uh, of that hard learning was, uh, I came home for awhile, you know, thinking that I was in charge of things, you know? Oh, well, you know, I'm just going to, I've been charged on the road of certain things. So I'm going to come home and be in charge of certain things at home. Nah, no, not really. You're only going to be in charge of what you're told. You're going to be in charge of by the person who runs the house. That's right. And I've learned to find my place in that, because again, after, uh, you know, I was I'm in a 14 year relationship and the longest amount of consistent time that we have spent together in those 14 years is three months. Yeah, it's true. So now here we are going on nine months almost. Speaker 2 00:05:42 Yup. I've seeing each other consistently every day. Yep. And you know, there's many positives in that, but there's also many trials and tribulations to work through with that with somebody, you know, that's and you know, when you get to be with the kids, with the kids too, you know, the kids are used to have mom him to do stuff. And then when dad comes in with a whole different authority, they're kind of like, okay, but you know, mom, didn't tell us to do it that way, but you are, uh, now maybe you should just listen to mom. No, listen to dad. Just listen to mom on that one. I've learned from that last mistake. Speaker 0 00:06:13 That's right. When, when, uh, when my wife, Jamie would start putting it in terms of doing shows, like I would want something done in one way and she'd come in and say, she'd look at me and say, now listen, if I were to tell you to do that on your show site, and I were to come in and say, move that thing over there. How would you feel if I just came in and started giving barking orders and I'm all right. Okay. I get it. Point well taken. Speaker 2 00:06:38 Yep. You're right. Yeah. I get it. I'm not saying I won't do it again, but Speaker 0 00:06:42 That's right. Exactly. So we're, we're talking about stage management here, um, and managing people, a lot of people, sometimes big multi truck, uh, you know, multi bus tours. Um, you know, when you think about being a stage manager as you've been doing for so long, what, what do you see as your primary role at that concert, at that show? Um, to help manage, but just as a stage manager, what do you say, Hey, this is my role. When I walk into a job, this is what I see it as, Speaker 2 00:07:18 Uh, I think it's depends on whose perspective that's from, as like, as the stage manager to local state Chan's, uh, I'm the guy who is going to facilitate, um, their jobs and try to make it as easy for them as possible. Yeah. Same as same as the crew touring crew. Like my job is, uh, how's it like the easiest way to put it is, is to give the crew that I'm touring with, uh, to make their days easy as possible to make their days easy as possible, because we are away from family and loved ones and, you know, not a lot of sleep, so it's to make their days easy as possible. And in doing that, by being ahead of all the problems with logistics or ahead of the possible problems with labor or the possible, um, you know, it like, uh, dealing with sometimes you got to deal with coordinating with the rigors, you know, and like making out the floor and making sure that they can still Mark out the floor. Speaker 2 00:08:17 Cause you're dumping trucks on top of them because you showed up late, you know? Um, so big overall from your stage manager is, uh, to create an easy as a day as possible for everybody in that venue makes sense for very forever for the production manager. For me, I like for my job as a stage manager to the production manager is to be their way, man, but like see potential problems that they may not see if they're in an office, you know, is to be their eyes on the floor for anything that may come up, you know, good or bad, you know, because they are not there. So they've got to their year, their eyes on the floor, you know? Yeah. And I, and I talked to my job for them is to take as much off their plate as I can. Yep. Pre and pre and during concerts, you know, a hundred percent. So I think it, it, it, it's, it's a facilitator, you know, I, as a stage manager, I facilitate. Yeah. Um, so I guess that's it kind of facilitate, um, logistics with, with the least amount of problems. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:09:18 So that, um, that kind of answers the next question of how, how do you make their job easier? I mean, from a, from a day-to-day standpoint, regardless Speaker 2 00:09:31 Xavi and stay chance, are they be touring crew, let's say touring crew, touring crew, uh, make it easy on a daily basis. Um, when I get in the building first thing in the morning and I do a walk and I start looking around for storage, uh, you know, I don't just go to the crew and say, Hey guys, there's the storage room. Cool. Have at it first come first serve. You know, I'll go there and I'll go to each crew chief and I'll say, Hey dude, this is your part of the storage. You know, like, or this is your area, this is a storage room for just you. I'm only telling you guys about it, but you can't put your stuff anywhere else, you know? And I communicate so the best way that I can say I make days easier for people is I communicate, I communicate the plan and I have a plan in terms of like, I don't tell them how to do their job, but I will offer ideas for logistics of how to get their gear in the building. Speaker 2 00:10:17 You know, I'm not going to tell them how to run their cables unless it has to do with my stuff, you know, like pass to the stage and stuff like that. But to make it easier for them is to be ahead of any problems that they may face, you know, that they're not looking at because they're looking at their job at hand. Yup. Get this lighting rig up, you know, but it's my job to look at all the problems that's going to come up to them and getting that rig up. Yeah. You know, and coordinating with the sound guys that the lighting Reagan and the PA cluster is going to smash. If we don't put a tagline on it, you know, just communicating with people and seeing things that they may not see because not because they're negligent, it's because they're in their own job. Speaker 2 00:10:53 They have their own job. And I can't expect them to be looking out after everything. That's something we used to tell me too, is because I used to get worked up when everybody didn't see my vision. Right. That's not their job. That's my job. My job is to see the vision and to deliver it so that they understand it. It's not their job to understand my vision. Yeah. That's your mind what's that they can't read your mind. Well, that's it. And then that's it. And that's something that Jim, you know, he helped me understand is that, you know, one, everybody, it's not their job, you know, and two, you can't be, I can't think that everybody thinks like me, you know? Uh, and, and that's why I will go out and communicate, you know, I try to empathize with local stagehands as well as touring people. Speaker 2 00:11:41 You know, like the, if a touring guy comes in and says, Hey, I need two guys to grab that fucking, super heavy thing over there on the ground. And he's not thinking about it. I'm going to go to the stations and go guys for four guys, go over there and grab that, just follow him, you know? And that's me looking out for the stagehands. Yep. You know, like for me, I just try to look out for everybody, you know, maybe to a fault sometimes, but like the merch guy, guys, don't just throw all the boxes in a big old pile, you know, let's make them nice and neat here for when he comes in, he can take his stuff and it's easier for him. You know? I just want to give everybody an easy job as possible, but not at my expense because also I don't want people to take my kindness for weakness. That's right. You know, you know, you know how I can get, you know, it's, you know, Speaker 0 00:12:28 What are you talking about? Yeah, I Speaker 2 00:12:29 Try not to, but yeah. It can be a little bitch sometimes too. So, Speaker 0 00:12:34 So what, what are you w how do you stay organized on a day to day basis when you're doing like, I mean, you're managing 30, 40 guys, local stage. I mean, what are you doing to stay organized? Speaker 2 00:12:47 A lot of talking to myself in my head. Yeah. A lot of, not in a bad way, but a lot of going over potential problems or what do I need to do next? I always try to want to be one step ahead of everybody else, unless it's their actual job, you know, like it's not, you know, uh, I will try to, where am I going with this in terms of like, trying to be ahead of all the potential problems that they will experience in that day. And if I can be ahead of them, um, then they're never a problem to begin with. Yeah. Does that make sense? You know, like there's a lot of people in my, a lot of stage managers, let's just say for that or a production managers or anybody for that matter, you know, you don't get the accolades for not having a problem. Yep. You're cause no one ever knew it was going to be a problem. But boy, there is many, a times where if certain things just don't get addressed, that problem could have been huge. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Uh, no. I thought, I don't know where I just went on a tangent. Cause you, I think you asked me something that had nothing to know Speaker 0 00:14:05 That, that that's, that's how you do your job and that's what I care about. And Speaker 2 00:14:11 Yeah, it's honestly, I would try to empathize with people, um, and uh, always try to stay at 30 minutes ahead of a timeline as well. You know, like I go to people and I'm sure I maybe did it with you as well. I'll go to crew chiefs and I'll say, this is usually at around 12, 15, you know, we got to start cutting people at 1230 for lunch. Yep. Hey dude. At one o'clock how many people are you going to need back from lunch? Because if he says, Oh, we'll be done by one o'clock then you know what I'm doing? I'm not going to, I'm just going to let them work through one o'clock and then I'm going to cut him. Yeah. But he's only need four people coming back from lunch then I'll double-check Hey, you need four or do you need six? Because you know, we need to make sure we're going to be ready for soundcheck. Speaker 2 00:14:51 And if it's just two guys for an extra hour, we can deal with that. Cause I'd rather have that than have the artists waiting for an extra hour. Uh, so a lot of communication, uh, really a lot of trying to empathize and not asking people to do anything that I wouldn't do that. That's the other thing too, is I, as a stagehand, when I was a local stage and here in LA, I always had respect and admiration for the people who were on the other side of something asking me to do it. Yep. Hey buddy, can I get a hand with this rather than, Hey, can you go grab that for me? Yeah. You know, I will tell people, there are people, some of the stronger unions, like, man, you don't need to be doing that. You know, you don't need to be pushing that. I'm just like, if you're okay with it, I'm a firm believer in working with me and not for me. Yeah. Oh, I like that. Yeah. You can push that case. You just know you don't need to. Yeah, I know. I don't need to. I want to, yeah. Speaker 0 00:15:37 Yeah, no, that was one thing I always respected about the way that you worked was that you were always the first guy to put your hands on something, always the first guy to push it around, push it across, move it around. I'm always seeing you back on the dock, moving something somewhere at any given time. Um, getting ready for load out and getting, you know, finishing upload in, cleaning up racks, cleaning up, uh, cleaning up set carts. Um, I sometimes I wonder if set carts weren't the bane of your existence, but you know, Speaker 2 00:16:06 It helps the storage for sure. You know? Uh, but again, it's, it's, I really enjoy, you know, um, pretty much I've learned to enjoy all aspects of production as well. You know? I mean, I started as, as a carpenter and a rigger, you know, I've toured as a carpenter rigger, never toured as a lighting guy or a video guy, sound guy don't know all the technical ins and outs and all of that stuff. But, uh, another thing over the last few years, I watch more, a lot more lighting and video and sound being done. Cause I know less about it. Yeah. You know, just to, just to learn more about it. So, so that when I asked the video crew to come in and do something that I know that it's not too much to ask or if it is that I know how many people they're going to need to be involved. And if I don't have the answer, I go to the crew chief and I say, Hey, dude, I need you to tell me not what you think I want to hear. You need to tell me the truth, you know, so that we can move forward from this. Speaker 0 00:17:00 Yeah. Especially if they're floundering or you can tell that they're having a really hard time. Speaker 2 00:17:06 Sure. Dude, we just, uh, it was funny. I'll say I'm one of the tours that I've done in the last couple of years. Um, but it was a video crew, but you would always know when they're having a tough day because everything would just be going and then you'd look and there'd still be that top row still on the deck. You know, all the points are hung and everything and you go guys, you're right. Uh, yeah. We just figured out these bumpers again and you know, and all this stuff. And I was like, okay buddy, listen, you got Tom, I don't want to stress you out. If there is an issue. And if it's going to delay any time constraints, you let me know. I E if this is going to push you past your four hour minimum with your crew, I need to know this. Speaker 2 00:17:44 And I need to know what the problem is because it's really not an issue until it starts to become more money for our, you know, for the, for our artists. So it, you know, if it's within a four hour minimum and it's not affecting anybody else, cool, sit there. And you milked that for our minimum, for that video department or whatever department it is. Right. But just know that in doing that, these hands are done in four hours. I told you this two hours ago, you know, these, I can't keep them past the four hours. As long as you guys know what you're getting into and you, this is not going to affect the carps or the lighting guys or a sound check or anything like that. Go be it, you know, take your time. You're at the back wall, you're off the stage, whatever. Yeah. Um, and then there's times where, if it's on the stage, I was like, cool, you guys, you have 20 fucking minutes because you've been going for an hour and a half. You said 20 minutes. And the artist is walking on the stage in 30 minutes and you don't have any more time because you've been telling me 20 minutes for two hours. So if you lie to me, I can't, I can't pick through the bullshit other than here comes the artist and learn from your mistakes. Don't lie to me next time. Yeah. Yep. Speaker 0 00:18:46 That's right. I get it. Yeah. Um, when you're, when you're doing a show, when you're managing, you know, your crew chiefs, you're managing all the people around, what are you looking for? Like, what do you see as, as a quality in the crew chiefs that you want working for you? I know that you rarely ever have a choice to choose who you get, but when you do, Speaker 2 00:19:07 Oh, no, we do now. Uh, I let's say over the years I get input. And, but it's more so it's not necessarily, let's just say there's some that I know, uh, that I would not work for it, or it would not happen again. You know, Jim and I had a couple of people, you know, over our years that if one of the vendors were just bring up this person's name, we'd be like, nah, you know, we need somebody else, you know? Um, but for me, what, what I like and crew chiefs are people who are patient tolerant. Yep. Um, and lead by example. Yeah, for sure. Um, because that also lead by example goes not just for the local stations, but he goes for their touring crew, their texts as well. Yes. You know, if you've ever lazy head of department that just tells all of his texts to do everything all the time. Speaker 2 00:19:54 Yeah. It may get done, but you're not going to have that cohesiveness of a really good crew. Yeah. I've noticed that the good departments have a good leader. That's right. You know, and like they're the, the, the lower level texts will be like, Hey dude, you don't do that. Let us do that for you because they've earned the respect from their, from their lower, like the, the, the younger people want to do stuff for the older people or the higher ups, you know, to impress them because they've got the respect now. Like, they're all, Hey, well that he did it last time I can do it this time. You know, stuff like, um, what I don't like about crew chiefs are yellers and screamers. Don't get me wrong. There is a time and a place because you need to be heard sometimes. And if someone's disrespecting you, of course put them in their place. Speaker 2 00:20:38 But the yelling and angry and bitter for no reason, I don't like at all. Um, I usually will come back and say, Hey, dude, you gotta chill and warn him a few. And we've gotten rid of a few people because that just is negative energy on the floor that you don't need. Nope. You just don't need it. You know? And there's always, there's always occasions that, you know, if somebody is disrespectful, of course, people can flare up. You know, you can't let people take your kindness for weakness. But, um, I don't know for me, uh, cause I was on union stagehand when I started, like I was low level do grunt, you know, putting down plywood on stadium shows and stuff like that. But I always had an admiration and respect for people for the leaders that, you know, the crew bosses, the stage managers, whoever they were, the production managers that were always involved, you know, they were involved, they were part of the part of the solution. You know, they wouldn't just point out the problem. They were also part of the solution. Speaker 0 00:21:33 That's right. I, I think it's great. Um, you know, as you've grown up as a, as a case, so stage hand, and then rigger carpenter, uh, stage manager, you know, every, this question is always uncomfortable for people. So I'll just prepare you in advance. Speaker 2 00:21:50 No, just shooting. Why Speaker 0 00:21:52 Do you charge what you charge for your labor? I'm not asking what you charge, but why, where, Speaker 2 00:21:59 Yeah, well, first of all, I don't have a set rate because I feel that it, it depends on the artist you work for. Okay. If let's say rolling stones, call me to go out on tour, I'm going to have a different rate or at least I'm going to, I'm going to put a different rate out there. Got it. Then say, uh, you know, fucking, I don't know, just some, some C-level artists that, that is giving me a month's work between tours. Yeah. You know, so, so I, I, but I, I will say, what is my value for one? Uh, it started out a very low level, you know, when I first started touring 25 years ago. Right. And, uh, it's goes up obviously over time of course, but I have a range, uh, that is between $1,500. Yeah. You know, it's, it's between X and X. Speaker 2 00:22:47 And what I base that on is, you know, I know that I don't charge as much as some big stage managers, but I also know that I'm not cheap either. You know? And it's, it's that happy, medium. I negotiate, you know, I price, you know, and if we just can't come to a number, then that's just not the camp for me. Understood. How do I put a value on that? Uh, I don't know. I kind of want to say I evolved. I mean, you know, I'll just say it's my first two, wherever was dizzy. I did, I worked for the rat, uh, and I went to Disney Fest Asia and I went, lived in Singapore for nine months or six months and then Taiwan for six months. And they offered me a thousand dollars a week and I was like, whew, I'm, I'm gone. They do, this was in 1996 or whatever, five 96, whatever. Speaker 2 00:23:38 And, and I took it and it was great. And I went, and so then when I came back on the next tour, I came back and actually doing rock music. Okay. And so I had my starting point, you know, because I didn't want to go less. And then from, you know, being around the business for a little while, I always started Disney was kind of cheap anyway. Yeah. But so that was my starting point. And then over time, you know, go up, I would ask for a little bit more, you know, we're years, you know, a couple years go by and ask for a little bit more and you started getting bigger artists, you know, with and bigger productions, you know, more demand for what I was doing, you know? So, uh, that comes into play. How many trucks, you know, I'll ask how many trucks is this going to be? Speaker 2 00:24:20 But usually when they sign you on, that's going to vary because you know, a us tour may say 12 trucks, and then you go to Europe and you'll have three, then you're going to Asia and you won't have any, you know, so, but on the consistent touring of Europe and us, I'll ask how many trucks, you know, if they say two and they're a smaller band, I'll take a lesser salary. Yeah. Uh, is where somebody comes in and they say, we have 16 trucks and we want you to go out for this. And if it's a low ball offer, I'll go, well, not a chance, but you know, I'll go out for this. And if we meet in the middle, great. Yeah, Speaker 0 00:24:52 No, that's great. I think that's awesome. And, and there's a lot of variables there. Like you said, a two truck tour can sometimes be harder than a 16 track Speaker 2 00:25:00 Thrust to her in theaters. Yeah. Two trucks. You were in theater with stupid set pieces in storage that aren't going to go anywhere and all that stuff. Yes. Speaker 0 00:25:07 Quadruple, quadruple stacked, flipped, upside down wheels to the sky, Speaker 2 00:25:13 Lifting up on top of an addict. That's going to take dude, God, where was it? Oh God, it was in Switzerland or no Denmark. They have this new building, right. Brand new building that burned down the inside of it a couple of years ago. And so we are one of the first bands coming into this building. And prior to us getting there, they told us you cannot store anything. You can store zero in the building. It's all got a store outside and down the street. Wow. So when we get there, I walk in and the first thing that I see, the first thing that I see is some of their house cases stored underneath the seats and underneath the stage. And so when I got to the building person, I was like, Hey, so just so I'm clear, are all your things going out of the building or are we allowed to store in the building? Speaker 2 00:25:59 And they're like, what? I'm like, well, we were told nothing can store in the building. Well, what happened is we ended up storing some of the building and they ended up staking, some of theirs out of the building. And we had a compromise, you know, but it was all about the delivery, you know, and, and just the compromise. But some places we were able to work that out. But I guess the point I'm getting at is some two truck tours in a theater, loading out, getting the gear back in, you have to do a separate load in to get the gear so that you can do your out. Yeah. You know, and I did that on a few times on the Halsy tour, we had tons of gear stored outside and, and all these carts and everything. And before we bring in the guillotine and load out in the PA and all that stuff, you got to get all that stuff to front of house, you know, because if there's no side bombs or everything, everything's got to get on the floor before we can load out. Speaker 2 00:26:45 So you got to load in before you can load out and get everything going one direction before you get everything going the other direction, you know, ouch. Well, but I would, you know, and some people, Oh, can we just, no, I don't want anything going two different directions. Just give me five minutes. Your one little base rack can sit by your world right now for five minutes. And I'm not trying to be a Dick, but those are the only things going out that quick, or the floor lights that I load. Just leave them in the corner. Let me get everything inside the building first. And then we'll take everything out because otherwise you're crossing streams, you got set cars, smashing little boxes, you know, and all kinds of stuff. So Speaker 0 00:27:19 You mean a back line guy wanted to push against the stream and get his gear on the truck before it was unloaded, Speaker 2 00:27:24 Dude, 13 minute load out, bro. I did 13 minute load out 17 minute load out sucks. So they gotta have that 13 minute load. I Speaker 0 00:27:31 Know buddy. I know Mandy. Speaker 2 00:27:34 I'm just poking at the backline guys. Cause a lot of backline guys, I really enjoy. And they work really hard, but you know, it's just that play. It's like, it's like making fun of a video guy sometimes with their cable. Speaker 0 00:27:43 I know. Well, we all know the shortest distance between two points versus the video cable. That's right, dude. So what, uh, what are, what are three things that Ethan Murphy needs on? Every show doesn't matter what they are. They can be anything. I don't care. It's not, Speaker 2 00:28:01 Are they tangible things or no? Sure. Three tabs. Like I need to have one thing that I need to have. I need to have stage hands. Speaker 0 00:28:08 Yeah. Well, all right. So let me, let me back up. So three. Okay. There you go. All right. Speaker 2 00:28:15 Flashlight. Okay. And taint measure flashlight. And nowadays you need fucking hardhat or steel toes, but that's just, you know, for safety, but in terms of tech, um, your stage plot. Speaker 0 00:28:28 Got it. Love it. That's that's great. What about personal things? What are three things that you as a person like, okay, when I'm touring, these are the three. If I couldn't take anything, but these three things with me and they would travel with me everywhere. I went, what are those three things Speaker 2 00:28:46 Passport? You need to, Speaker 0 00:28:50 I mean, it's like, you're so you have your phone. But like, so for me, if I went anywhere that didn't have coffee, like that would be like the place that I couldn't go. I mean, I would go, but you know, it's like the, it's the things that make being on the road better. Speaker 2 00:29:06 You know what I, for one, I really like, I don't know. I like the adrenaline rush of that, of, of things I need to have not a boring job. Like they're not adrenaline rush as a long term of it, but, um, that's why I still do it. I have that, that, that job still gives me excitement. Yeah. So I still need that excitement when I go to, to a job. All right. So I still need the excitement, um, or the passion, I guess, that passion to do what I do. So that's one, um, I still need the support of my friends and family because here I am, I'm the guy that you just got close to over these last few months. Now I'm going to disappear again. So please, you know, because personal relations are tough for people like us when we get home, you know, because you're that guy that's gone again, you know, um, that, you know, what's really funny, Jordan. Speaker 2 00:30:02 That's really things like it. We have a checklist of packing, but for me it's all necessities like passport toiletries. I go through the shoe, socks, underwear pants, short, short, sleeve, long sleeve. Like I, I closed myself as I go up to make sure I have everything in the suitcase. Yeah. But like, um, you know, I would say, uh, patients, I definitely need patients from the second I leave my house because it's just a first thing you go to as an airport. What do you need in an airport? Patients and people in lines and all that stuff. Um, but what do I, my work box, my work box, but that's not a need at every show because work boxes are costs. I can take my flashlight and my tape measure or like, and you know, what a pen and paper, little notepad as I get older, my memorize a lot of stuff are used to, but as I'm getting older, the brain is a forget some things. So, you know, for a bigger production or anything, that's got like little TD things, tiny things, just a little notepad, just so you know, you're getting a lot of information. And then the production manager calls you and tells you, you need to do something. Oh, shit. Well, I don't want to forget that. Just write it down real quick. Yeah. You know? Speaker 0 00:31:17 Well, and I think that the way, I mean, the way you answered that shows really shows a picture of you as, as a professional, like being able to work in any situation with whatever you're given and, and being able to like, like you said, as long as I bring my good attitude with me and bring a little bit of patience, we're going to shoehorn this thing in here. And it don't matter what, what, what happens. We're gonna have, Speaker 2 00:31:38 There's no choice. We're not going to cancel the show because they won't fit in the venue. That's right. Joe is tonight, you know? And, uh, you know, one thing I will say that helps me a lot, being a stage manager, uh, as funny as it sounds is granola bars. I call them breakfast bricks because sometimes do, depending on the show or the venue or whatever, it may be nonstop until at least lunchtime. Yep. You know, so you get your breakfast in the morning. That's great if you have time, but 10, 11, 12, when everyone else is starting to go eat and you're making your cuts and you're making sure that the flow is still going on the floor, and then everybody's still working, you start to get a little hungry and in my skinny ass gets hungry. I get a little grumpy. Right. What I've learned is I just put a package of granola bars in my pocket. Perfect. You know, just, just something to just eat, to put something in there. Uh, because sometimes stage managers don't get to eat and it's not that they don't get to. They can, I'm just, uh, it's my own fault. Sometimes dude go eat something and it's like, I won't walk off the floor for fucking 10 minutes. Yeah. You know, when I can, I really can, but I won't. And then I'll go eat at like two o'clock when I can sit down for like 30 minutes, you know, Speaker 0 00:32:51 I had a, I had a stage manager, a stage manager, lighting crew chief. I don't remember one or the other, one of the first rock and roll tours I did back in sheesh, 2007. I was in the middle of a project during a load in. And he's like, you know, and it was like one of those days we had two days to load in first load in kind of getting stuff put together. And I was like, no, I gotta finish this. No, I got it. And he's like, Jordan, there's always going to be work left to do, go get food, take 10 minutes and eat some food. And I've never forgotten that because he's right. Like there's always good in the world. It really does a hundred percent, um, Speaker 2 00:33:28 And naps too. You know, it's funny. Um, I do not, I do not take naps at home. Never. Yeah. I don't like it. I feel like it's just a personal thing, but boy is a nice thing to get an app on tour, you know? I mean, because let's face it up at six 30 in the morning bed at two 30 or three in the morning. Yeah. For very, really shows in a row. So, and everybody should take a nap when they can get it. And that's another thing I try to preach on people is that do don't feel guilty about going to take a nap if the work is done and then like, you know, I'll develop most tumors. I'll try to find a channel, but usually it's channel 10 or something. And I call it the sleep channel. Do you just go to channel 10? If I need you I'll call you. But otherwise you wouldn't hear in, you shouldn't hear anything on that radio, you know, Speaker 0 00:34:12 Great idea. I never even thought about that. Um, I've always been, I always felt like I was lazy if I napped on tour. So I, I, there were times that I wouldn't, because I'm like, I don't want to feel like I'm lazy or whatever the case may be. Speaker 2 00:34:26 I used to be that way in the beginning. And then it was like, you know, fuck that. Did my PRI yeah, I don't need that. But I do. I feel that way when I'm at home, I can take a nap. Speaker 0 00:34:35 No, I I'm with you on that. I agree. Um, I think that it it's, uh, naps are good though. I like naps. Sometimes. Sometimes I just have to like stop and I'm like, okay, 10 minutes set the alarm on my phone and, Speaker 2 00:34:49 Well, that's good. Those are the best ones though, too promoted. Like the, the shorties. Yeah. You know, anything over that, like for me, like over I don't about touring is totally different from home. But like, if it like early at night, say eight o'clock at night. If I fall asleep for like 10 minutes before I'm supposed to, uh, God, that's a really good sleep. It is, you know, Speaker 0 00:35:09 God, it feels so good. And you're like, but then sometimes I ended up being up to like one o'clock in the morning and I'm like, I can't go back to sleep. So Speaker 2 00:35:18 I'll tell you, that's my sleeping pattern now is I've gotten to, uh, for, for awhile. It was, you know, cool. I get all the sleep though. Now it's waking up at fucking five in the morning, you know, just, okay, great. I went to sleep at one and now it's five. Oh gee, what did I used to do? Oh, I used to be a tour schedule, slow down, back to that. Uh, you know, but whatever, learning new things, it's temporary. Speaker 0 00:35:43 How does your body handle kind of the, the sleep schedule on tour and, and, you know, as you're getting older, have you noticed anything that you like you have to do differently when it comes to going to bed, waking up things like that? Speaker 2 00:35:57 Um, as I've gotten older, I've just noticed that I need more sleep. Yeah. But I'm also the person that on a day off, it's not like I go to bed at 10 o'clock so that I can wake up at six. I still am up until midnight and we'll go to sleep. You know, you already got me thinking about these three things that I need to take on tour. And literally it's, it's a tape measure, a flashlight and a fucking good attitude. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:36:22 That's great. I, I, that's all you need and we're back up and running now. So that was perfect timing for you to say that I couldn't have asked for a better, could not have asked for a better timing on that. Um, how do you find work when you first got into the industry? Of course, finding work is super critical, but what did you do to, to find work when you first got into Speaker 2 00:36:45 All this? I first, my first gig, uh, was scaff and I first started, uh, I was 19 and my stepfather, uh, ran a local production company here in Los Angeles for exonerees production services. And he was doing a bunch of, uh, stadium shows at the time scaffolding. And, uh, he asked me if I wanted to go do a load out. And so I said, sure. And I went and did a load out at the Rose bowl and they put me up in the past line and, uh, I was hooked, uh, I mean, straight up that became my job for the summer. Wow. Doing local production work, mostly scaff. And I enjoyed that whole everything about it. I mean, I grew up in the industry, right. So I've always been backstage at concerts and all that stuff, but I had never worked in it. And then when I did that scaff gig, uh, the adrenaline rush and th th the comradity and that pirate nervous about it and all that stuff was exactly what I wanted when I was 19 years old. Speaker 2 00:37:41 So I was an economics major at the time I took a semester off and this is the longest fucking semester I've ever had. Uh, and I was a local, just a local state chant, you know, for the first four or five years. And that Disney thing that I told you about earlier Disney Fest Asia, we did a rehearsal here in Los Angeles, and we built two circus tents, basically the size of football fields. And they were joined by a tunnel, right. Oh, cool. It was like a six week loading. Right. And then we did the rehearsals and all this stuff. And during the rehearsals, the head carps last stage manager for the show approached me and said, Hey, man, uh, we really liked the way you work. Would you want to go over to Singapore with us and help us build it over there? And he said, you know, you can do the rigging part of it and build the structure and all that like you did here. Speaker 2 00:38:33 And then when we go into the theater, you can come in and help me be a build the theater and the stage and all that stuff. And I was like, sure, why not? Awesome. So when that was my first offer to go, to leave anything, um, and went to Singapore and, uh, while we were over there, I was only supposed to do the load in. And we got, you know, halfway through the load end and the same guy approached me and said, Hey, man, what do you think about staying over here and helping me run the theatrical show? And so I stayed there and that's, I did the Disney Fest Asia with them for a year and came home. And at the time, uh, all access, you know, I'll access stagey. Yeah, go ahead. Ty Trussell worked there and I had done a bunch of local work for all access over the years, you know, through Fred. Speaker 2 00:39:15 And, uh, he called me and he's just like, Hey dude, you just got back from Asia. Do you want to go to Europe? I need to replace somebody on an Atlantis Morissette tour. And I went on Atlantis, Morissette. I said, sure. And I met a production manager on that. Uh, no, not sorry. Not yet. I did. Alannis Morissette for 10 weeks came back and then Ty Trussell, same guy said, Hey, we're doing corn rehearsal or production in here during the mock-up for the set. And the production manager is going to come in here. Uh, and I want you to meet them and they need another carpenter. They have six, they need a six carpenter. Jeez. And I went and met the guy who I had already knew. He was, when I knew him, he was a lighting guy for delicate. His name was Chris Grattan. And he, he worked for lights. Well, over these few years now, he's, you know, he's moved up the ranks and he's production manager. We saw each other, we knew each other. He's like, yeah, absolutely. So I went on tour with him. And for the next few years after that, I pretty much just worked with the same production manager. Right. And through the exposure of that, um, uh, I've been fortunate enough to where people have reached out to me for work. Yeah. You, you, over the year, um, Speaker 0 00:40:29 Your, your quality of work speaks for itself and that's the, Speaker 2 00:40:33 But, but it's, it's, it's a unique experience in that. I just feel very fortunate with the, the networking that I made early to where, uh, people will call me if they, if they need me or want me to work for them. Yeah. You know, um, uh, it's kind of embarrassing in that if you were to ask me to do a resume, I probably wouldn't be able to do one or, you know, I can tell you all the people I've worked for and all that stuff, but I feel very blessed and fortunate enough in that I've never had to do a resume. Yeah. Um, now that being said right now, if I were to go apply for anywhere, uh, you know, outside of this industry, um, you know, that's a whole new ball game that scares the fuck out of me because, you know, not exposed to that. Yeah. And as not as scared the fuck out of me, it's just going to be different. It's just way different. Yep. Speaker 0 00:41:21 It's a, it's a scary proposition. It's been a thought that's crossed my mind. Even, even running my company and things like that. It's like, okay, how, how long does this go? And what happens if the list goes on for years? You know, what, what do we do and where am I going to go and having to create, you know, a resume and ma you know, how tell people what we do and how we do it, and how did we do it? I mean, you know, Speaker 2 00:41:44 And this is all we know though, too. And that's the thing is, is that this was our careers. You know, it was our careers. It's not like, it's not like this was a part-time summer job, you know, that we'd pick up to go hang out at concerts. You know, like this was a career that when we all made decisions and turn down other life opportunities to do this, to take this path. Got it. You know? And so it's, it's the fact that it was all just, it's gone. Like right now, it's not gone forever, but it is non-existent right now. So there's a lot of people in limbo, including myself, you know, uh, I feel fortunate now more so than six say six months ago that the realization that I can like really step back and tell you to take a look of how this affects us in our industry and the social side of it, and being around thousands of people to being around three people a day, you know, for months and weeks on end, like, uh, it's trying, you know, and unfortunately some people have taken their lives in this fucking, during this thing. Speaker 2 00:42:40 And, you know, and people are struggling and, and it's, it's sad. It's really sad. Uh, and I just, uh, I really just hope that this business comes back to somewhat what it was before. Yeah. I hope that it doesn't all change because it really, as dysfunctional as this business was, or as dysfunctional as the people in this business are, is they very functionable business, you know, Speaker 0 00:43:04 It is, it's a hundred percent man. Um, the, the work that you do can be pretty tough. You can have some pretty rough days and pretty good days. Um, what overall is the toughest job? Like the toughest gig you ever had? It was just downright tough, miserable, you know, wouldn't want to do it again Speaker 2 00:43:28 Physically. Oh, let's do both because I'll tell you this, uh, a little thing. I was an assistant tour manager. Right. And let's just say that, uh, you know, I'm not going to get into any names or artists or anything like that, but I left a, uh, very, very popular artist who I had very good relationships with them in that band. Um, and I left them because my relationship with the tour manager was so distraught. Yeah. And I was mentally miserable on days. Everything to do with working with that person is, was just not me, you know, it just was not a good fit. And, uh, so I left it, you know, that, that was a, a tough part for me to do. But on the assistant tour manager side of that thing, that was mentally the toughest job that I had because no matter what I did it, what it was never a success. Speaker 2 00:44:26 It was never good enough. And it was never finished. It was just always a carrot in front of it and was a very frustrating job, you know, I guess. So that was the toughest one. Um, I guess mentally, uh, I'm just trying to think of shit tours. You know, some of them are shit when you're in it, but in hindsight, like, uh, I like the friends in the family, you know, the road family that I have from every tour that I've done, you know, there, there hasn't been a tour. Let's just put this way. I think, well, nowadays, if somebody reached the only artists that I've worked for, that if they reached out to me, I'd probably deny now wouldn't be because it was a difficult job. It'd be because of their legal problems. Uh, R Kelly, I worked at dark Kelly for, you know, for one tour and, uh, you know, nothing went bad or anything like that, but obviously the guy's got some legal problems. So I just don't think I'd go back to work for him again. Uh, anybody else I'd go back and work for any of them Speaker 0 00:45:24 Physically like hardest just the one run or gig that was just a, a ball Buster, Speaker 2 00:45:31 I will say, but I really enjoyed the tour and it was physically, and it was really tough for me. Um, in a lot of different ways was avenged sevenfold hail to the King because we just had such a massive set and we were putting it in, um, like sheds was no problem until it was a 60 foot wide set in a 60 foot, one inch wide shed. And, uh, I had four other bands with us sometimes to where I was literally, cause it's really tough to get an eight by eight riser, uh, off the stage when you have no way to get it off the fucking state. So I would really set changes at four by eights through bringing them on through guitar world and then locking them together and getting them in place and then disconnecting them and going off through monitor world. Yeah, yes. Speaker 2 00:46:21 To make that happen on a daily basis. And then on top of that, we would have the two, those were for the opening act, drum risers. And then I would have to backload the two next, bigger drum risers. Cause they didn't have time to put them together during a set change. And they were much more intricate. Yeah. In our 40 or 24 by 60 foot set, we would leave decks out of it. And we would put their drum risers in it. And then when we came for their set, we'd pull their drum riser out, drop the curtain that was covering our set and then build up our set that we still had to build. Right. There was a whole lot of logistics on an everyday basis that we had to do on that brutal. That was pretty brutal. And that the kicker on that was the step change every day, going into a binge sevenfold, we had these 200 pound powder-coated aluminum stairs and there was 15 of them across the whole set. Speaker 2 00:47:13 And you could only put them like when you're putting them in on the onstage side, leading, if you didn't have someone you would trust putting them in they'd smash your fingers. Well, we had two carpenters on that too, where they were supposed to put the stairs in every day and what happened. It was, it was me. And you knew Chris Wilson. Yup. The rigor, the rigor and the production manager, and one local stagehands put those stairs in every day. And we were, animatedly frustrated with the carpenters who didn't make it past that leg. Um, but physically doing that every night during a set change on top of all the logistics going around now, that was a pretty tough to wow. Okay. Awesome. Tough, tough tour. Speaker 0 00:47:51 Yeah. Get it. But Speaker 2 00:47:54 I have mentally, uh, the biggest, the, the toughest thing I've ever had to just say that, I just want to say this because it's a really fucked up thing. If you ever have to deal with it is safety. I, I used to see Jordan, you know, me as well, I used to safety is important, but I used to be the guy of like, if I had to climb, I would just go climb. I wouldn't go put on my harness. Yeah. You know, Oh, you know, I was one of the old school staffers, you know, I never used to wear a harness, blah, blah, blah. And I still have a problem putting on a harness. Okay. I saw someone fallen die. All right. And that was the toughest day. I, the toughest loadout experience I've ever had. And I, the reason I'm bringing this up is because it only takes one time for some, but for you to fall. Speaker 2 00:48:35 And what's really fucked up is the person who fell. He didn't die. He landed on a kid and the kid that he landed on, his head popped and that kid died. So the person who in the end, the whole thing that's fucked up about that is he had a half harness on and he belly strapped and he pushed himself off the back and he didn't have two points of contact. So, you know, I'm just bringing this up in that you can have a really good days and good tours and all that stuff, but one fucked up thing can put a blemish on it for life, you know? And, and, and it may not even be your life that you're taking. It could be someone else's that had no idea. This was a 19 year old kid that literally was leaning over a section of lighting trust and, you know, without getting into gory details, I'm sure you can figure out what happened. Uh, and it's, uh, you know, I guess this is just my safety speech for the thing is just, it only takes one second to fall. Yeah. I mean, that's it. And, you know, as stupid as shit as I've done in my past, I should've fallen a hundred fucking times and thank God I did not. Yeah. You know, so I dunno, just blabbing about shit, but you were saying the worst tour tours, it's more so worst day. Yeah. Speaker 0 00:49:46 No, you're, you're answering the questions and that's what matters. Um, if somebody wants to become a rock star stage manager, like Ethan Murphy, what do they need to do? Or what should they be thinking about doing as their career grows? Um, you know, going forward from where they are right now, Speaker 2 00:50:07 Uh, something that has helped me is knowing a little bit about everything. I have toured as a carpenter of tutors, a rigger assistant to her manager, production manager, stage manager, you know, and then when I was in Los Angeles doing local work, I did it all. You know, I did rigging writing sound, but I was just a stage hand. Yep. Um, but understanding a lot of, like, not knowing the technical thing about everything, like I said, but the logistics of what it takes, just going from the <inaudible> trust, knowing logistics of what you're going to be asking somebody to do as a stage manager. Right. Um, and observing, you know, uh, observing and, and empathizing, you know, what certain things are, you know, everyone wants to talk shit about everybody else's department, you know, so-and-so has it so easy. So-and-so has it so easy and all that stuff, everyone picks their own jobs. How about this? Just think about your own job, cared about their other jobs. You know, Speaker 0 00:51:02 Uh, dude, I couldn't agree more. That's, that's a great way to be prepared and um, no, basically just enough. So people can't pull the wool over your eyes. So like you said earlier, when you're talking to the guys putting up the video wall and you know that it's been two hours and it should not have been two hours to do what they're doing and they can't look, you know, and they, they can't, well, he doesn't know what he's talking about and he doesn't know how long this takes will. You can go up there and say, guys, I know this, shouldn't take this long. You need to tell me what's really going on so that we can actually get to the bottom of it and stop lying to me about it. Um, because unfortunately that's what a lot of people do on the road that try and cover their own butt. And instead of, yeah, instead of admitting to their mistakes saying, Hey, I screwed up or this happened and we messed up, let's fix it together. You know, that was one of the things Jim always told me. He's like, Jordan, if there's a problem, I can't help you if I don't know about it. And so if you're trying to hide it because you want to fix it yourself, but then it could cause problems for other things down the road, for sure. Speaker 2 00:52:01 And it may affect other departments, you know, Speaker 0 00:52:03 You know, I had a, I had a really funny, so we Backstreet boys. We were somewhere, I don't remember. We were inside of like a shed. I want to say we were in, um, what is it? Woods? Um, something was, no, it wasn't Houston. It was that it's the big wooden, the big, uh, the big wooden shed where everything like the whole thing is still would, the backstage areas would, it's like a big theater, but it's um, Oh, um, Wolf, trap. Yeah. Wolf trap. Thank you. And I was, we were getting ready for show. We were like 25 minutes from the boys taking the stage. And I had, I'd set a water bottle with its lid on, on top of, uh, a case next to my rack. And I turned around and I whacked the water bottle. Thankfully it was capped, but it fell over and it did the one thing that I wouldn't expect. It Fe it hit the breaker on one of the two projectors for the, for the show. Like it fell down, hit, the breaker, turned the breaker off and boom fell down. And I was like, Oh crap. Speaker 0 00:53:14 And I'm sitting there thinking, Oh, you know, and I could, like, I could have tried to fix it, but I called Jim and I was like, Hey, here's what happened. And that was when he and I had that conversation, he was like, thanks for telling me, you know, and we decided right, leave it off. If something does go, it was only the backup. So if something happens, you can just flip it on and fire it up. But you know, that's where it is. Don't try and realign it. Don't try and fix it. Now, you know, we're 25 minutes from show doors are open and you know, that it was a perfect example of him saying, Hey, you know, yes, it was a mistake. It happened, but you know, and the show went perfect. Nobody knew anything. It wasn't needed. Like, it was great and nobody was the wiser, but I could, it really made us look like fools, if I'd have just afflicted on and started doing stuff and tried to fix it when, you know, he was able to make that call. Speaker 2 00:54:02 Yeah. And it's funny to say that, cause I tell people straight up now, and I'll tell this a crew chief, especially a lot of crew chiefs now that crew chief local crew chiefs. Right. Because they don't know me. Like after, you know, you tour with someone for, uh, after a couple shows, you know, their personality, whatever. Yeah. But I go in with local crew cheese all the time and it's usually with stage hands of how many short they are or how many late or anything exists. And I go, look, just tell me the truth. Don't tell me what you think I want to hear because the truth is going to come out very soon anyway. So just so I can deal with it so I can plan you. Tell me what the truth is so that I can deal with it the way that we need to, because I know what's in those trucks. Speaker 2 00:54:41 So, you know, the fact is if you lie to me and it's eight Oh five and we're still 10 short, uh, it's going to come out anyway, buddy. You know like, and same thing sometimes with crew chiefs, you know, like lighting guys or something. Okay, well when's this, when's the rig gonna go out 20 minutes. Well, I can tell you this right now. It's not going out in 20 minutes just by looking at DeMars right now. So I'll come back in five minutes and then you can tell me like, but don't tell me what you think I want to hear because you're gonna look more. You're gonna look worse. If you tell me 20 minutes, that makes you a good for right now. We're at 45 minutes from now. When it's still sitting on the ground, then it makes you look like, you really didn't know what the fuck you're talking about. You just told me what you think I want to be here. Speaker 0 00:55:18 That's right. A hundred percent dude, honesty and being straight up about it. It never, never is the wrong way to go. Even if it's the biggest screw up in the world. It doesn't, it doesn't matter. Speaker 2 00:55:28 Yeah. Yeah. Someone else real quick about, uh, being a stage manager, uh, if you do decide that you want to do something like that, just briefly paired that for long days. That's another thing too, you know, you're first in and last out and you are always on call. Even if there's nothing to be done. You know, if the production manager needs something on the floor and if you're taking a nap, that's all cool. And production managers are cool, but just be aware that you could get woken up at any times, you should not have an attitude about it. You can, you can fucking punch your bunk if you want, but is that curtains opens and you're getting out of your bunk. You don't carry that attitude with you because this is your job. This is your job to facilitate and be on call for your crew. From the moment you get off that bus until the moment you get back. Speaker 0 00:56:12 Yeah. That's what it is. And that's the job that you chose to do. And that's what you, uh, I mean, that was, Speaker 2 00:56:19 I see, I like it. I like the social interaction and I, the relationships that I've made around the world and I also like the controlled chaos of load ins and load outs. Yeah. I like it. You know, some people are like, Oh, it's so crazy. I'm crazy. I like adrenaline. Speaker 0 00:56:39 There are definitely days that I miss a good old fashioned rock show load in and you know, getting it in, you know, the first load in took you eight hours and then the 12th load in took you five. And it's, you know, the feeling of, of refining that process over and over and over and making it better and better and better. And then you get to, you know, as your load outs get better, you go from two and a half to two to one 45 and you're eating that one 35 and you're like, Oh, we're so close. There's a lot of, Speaker 2 00:57:13 I will say this. I really do enjoy those good load outs still. But uh, over the last couple of years, I've taken a step back in that to me, uh, hour and 47 minute load out and an hour and 53 minute load out, Hey, don't fucking matter really. I mean, they do. And I want to keep it going, but not at the expense of someone's safety, not at the expense of somebody's ankle, getting rolled up on it by a bisect cart, you know, stuff like that. You know, it's not worth it. You don't get an extra trophy. You don't get it raised. You don't get an extra t-shirt, but I will tell you if you're the fastest, you know, when we're done you, if you want to know, you know, the best is her first thing in the morning and you walk in, you haven't even unload. You haven't even opened the trucks yet. How long is your load out? I don't know, buddy. We'll find out how good your crew is tonight. We'll see how good you guys are. Our normal is an hour 45. Oh, we'll beat that. Okay. Well you guys just put your pressure on yourself, but I'm just telling you no one gets hurt here. Yep. Do is, is not at the expense of somebody else. That's right. Speaker 0 00:58:14 A hundred percent. Do they extra three minutes? Ain't worth it. Is that Speaker 2 00:58:17 It's not. I used to think it was, yeah, we did an hour and 43 minutes slowed out. Okay, cool. And then you sat and fucking washed up with a towel for 17 minutes in the fucking bathroom. Speaker 0 00:58:31 That's right. Speaker 2 00:58:32 Brush that quick then rushing to go to sleep or you just rushing to go have a beer and a slice of pizza. And I mean, I get it, but it just doesn't need to be an expense of somebody's safety, you know, Speaker 0 00:58:42 Not at all a hundred percent dude. That's awesome. That's all. Well, the last question I ask everybody, every time we do this is, um, Speaker 2 00:58:51 Whatever works for you. Yes, no, that is okay. Speaker 0 00:58:54 But I appreciate you answering that one. Um, what are two things that regardless of their position, lighting, audio, video, special effects, crew, chief statement or production manager. What are two things that I, as an individual can do to be more gig, ready to be more ready for my next gig? Nash? What are something I can be thinking about saying, okay, these are two things that I should be looking for in, so I can do a better job the next time I go out. Oh, Speaker 2 00:59:28 Is this like, are you talking Speaker 0 00:59:29 To like anything? No. Anything? Nope. Any, anything just doesn't matter. Speaker 2 00:59:35 Uh, try to empathize, carry, carry a bit of empathy. Yeah. Empathy. Meaning that, putting it and not like being able to put yourself in anybody's shoe and to understand maybe why the Denver guys having a really fucked up day. Yeah. You know, you know, Georgia understand why somebody else might be having a really bad day, like just empathy or to put yourself in their shoes of what you're asking them to do. You know, for me is to, just to be a bit more human. Yep. For me as it's something, especially coming out of this, that is something that I've told myself that I'm going to have to be coming out of. This is because everybody's fears are going to be different coming out of this and stagehand a may be very comfortable working shoulder to shoulder with somebody, with a mask on and stay Chan B may not be comfortable working with somebody within six feet around them. Speaker 2 01:00:21 Yeah. And I can't, it's not fair for me to tell that person who's scared that they shouldn't be scared and that they have to go work next to that person who shoulder to shoulder, I have to empathize. And I have to understand where maybe that person can do a job. That's going to, they're not going to feel alienated and they're going to still feel productive. Did I had a pregnant woman on a load-out she's literally looked like she was ready to pop and I'm like, she goes, what do you want me to do? I go, you're on the call. I thought she was less like an assistant or something or someone's wife or something. She says, Oh yeah, I'm yours. She was actually my stay chat because I had to utility what you're going to do. Young ladies, you're going to stand right here next to this forklift. Speaker 2 01:01:00 That's all you're going to do. And you're going to tell him up down, that is all you're going to do. And he's only going to listen to you. And I had a job for her and I worked with the other one brought cases to the forklift and all she would deal with forklift drivers up and down, you know, but I was able to find somebody, a job by putting myself in her shoes and trying to make her feel part of without making her feel like, Hey, just go sit in the chair over there. I, you can't do anything. You know, like you can't do something. If now I'm not going to have you go push anything. I don't need to have a pre-baby on the floor during load-out, but I will still make it. So you can be a part of this, you know? So for me, is empathy coming out of this or like, cause everyone's going to be going through different shit, uh, mentally, financially, uh, all that. Speaker 2 01:01:48 So that's one and the second thing, uh, empathy and patients, patients, and that's something that not just out of this patients, patients for anybody in this business going into it, because we are the majority of this business is a bunch of, uh, outcast for lack of a better word. You know what I'm saying? It's, it's a bunch of people who aren't the norm that's right, right. They're not the norm. That's why they do it. But in that you have so many different personalities that you're going to, that you're going to have to deal with and come into contact with and stuff like, so, and it's not always going to vibe with what you're saying or what you think or anything like, especially coming out of this with the politics and the Cobain and everything, given that, but understanding, uh, and patients like, you know, just having patients and not so argumentative about everything for me, that's just what I'm trying to take out of. This is empathy and patients coming out of this Speaker 0 01:02:40 Great dude. I, I, I mean, both of those things go got COVID or not. I mean that you, you have to do that. You look at others and understand that other people, um, are different than you are. And that as a human, I find it's very difficult sometimes to do that because we get so stuck, especially in, in our heads, um, you know, but to flip it around and I found it very useful, um, especially like my relationship with my wife, for instance, if she's having, I've been home for a really long time and she's having a tough day with something that I did, I, you know, whatever, I took the trash out the wrong way. It's not supposed to be that way. Well, she saw me doing it one way and interpreted it in one fashion because that's who she is. And I just looked at it as, Oh, it's no problem. I'm just going to do what I'm going to do. And taking 10 seconds till say, okay, she was expecting this set of steps to happen. I should have gone and gotten the trash upstairs first, before I took et cetera. You know, that little bit of understanding from the other side goes a huge way to creating a better relationship with people. Speaker 2 01:03:40 Um, the better, like I said, and learning here, still learning though, like I said, learning that I am not in charge when I come home Speaker 0 01:03:48 20, 25 years and counting and uh, still sometimes feels like a kindergartener. So it's, uh, you know, it's sometimes at least it's not first day, every day, so Speaker 2 01:04:02 True, true story. Speaker 0 01:04:04 Well, awesome. Doodle, thank you so much. I appreciate you taking all your time today. And, um, buddy was a really great chat. I really enjoyed it. And uh, I hope that other people did too. So thanks. Speaker 2 01:04:15 Good. Me too, buddy. Oh, it was a pleasure. It was have a great day. Good things, Jordan. You're doing good things, man. I'm proud of you kid. Thanks brother. Appreciate it. All right. See you Speaker 0 01:04:25 The last eight months in our lives have definitely not been easy. It's certainly been a challenge to figure out how are we going to navigate this timeframe? How are we going to move change, shift, adjust mindsets that have been ingrained for so long as you go forward through today, the rest of your week or your weekend know that there are others out there that are standing right beside you fighting the same fight you are working just as hard as you are to try and figure out a way to be better, to be stronger, to move on and get to the next phase of where we are. Get ready is about just that working together to find a better way forward. Thank you so much for listening and I hope you have a great day. <inaudible>.