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Speaker 1 00:02:01 <inaudible>
Speaker 0 00:02:17 Hey everybody, Jordan Goodfellow. Here we are with gig ready. And we have a great afternoon for you planned. I have the fabulous Brett Benin technical director with us today, and we are going to be talking about what is probably the most prominent and well-known word for everybody in the live events industry for the last two months, which is virtual or webcast. Uh, we've been talking about these for awhile. Brett is one of the foremost experts, uh, and does a ton of work on those Brett welcome. Thanks for being with us today. Hey, thanks for having me. That's awesome. Um, love, love what you do you, and I've had a number of conversations about how to do this, how we're going to do virtual events, the best way to on it. Um, so let's start from the top. It was, we're looking at a virtual event, a remote event, a hybrid event, whatever we want to term it. Um, as a video director, webstream producer technical director that does that. What is your definition of that particular position as it falls within, uh, the new, the new medium that we're in?
Speaker 2 00:03:20 Right. Um, so the way I would usually define it is my main duty is to ensure that the interviewer is getting an actor, an accurate, accurate portrayal of, uh, the event that is happening. Um, these current times it's kind of weird because we don't have a live audience necessarily that we're playing against. Um, so it has been modified a little bit in these times to where, um, I'm trying to make sure that they're receiving enough of, of the story to, uh, to, to really paint the picture of what's going on. Um, and it really now it's turned more to supporting the presenter to make sure that, uh, I'm able, we're able to get that message that they're trying to convey to their audience, uh, in a, uh, in an accurate, uh, form. Yeah.
Speaker 0 00:04:10 Makes sense. So that's interesting, actually, something I never thought much about in regards to thinking about the, the presenter on the other end, they actually have, there's not a, there's no feedback. They're not getting that audience interaction. Um, so they're talking like computer screen to computer screen and they're looking at their deck
Speaker 2 00:04:33 With no feedback. And it's really, that's been the biggest challenge with all of these presenters is, you know, they're used to, you know, throw in a or out there getting a little bit of a laugh or, you know, making some sort of a statement and getting, and which would normally elicit a response from a live audience. Um, and they're not getting that. So we've actually been playing with some different ideas of how we can actually provide that feedback, um, uh, using like a group, a zoom call so that we can provide them some amount of, uh, feedback. But yeah, it's, it's really tricky because you're not that you then have a latency that you need to deal with where if they deliver a joke, does that, does that response that we are now going to deliver back to the presenter come too late and, and, and how does that work out?
Speaker 2 00:05:21 So that's, uh, that's my been, my current challenge is trying to figure out that solution, but yeah, it's really, as, as my director, as a video director and in these virtual events, it's really making sure that the two sides are, are getting what they need so that we can make sure that they do it. Um, a lot of times I've seen so many, a webcast and virtual events where it's either a camera shot of the presenter or it's a slide. Um, so then you end up losing lot of it. Um, a lot of our dialogue when we're talking and presenting is, is in people's face, like where, what expression are they giving? You can, there's a lot of non-verbal communication that goes on. Yeah. So it's always my, uh, my push to try not to lose that nonverbal communication. So we will, a lot of times do a PIP, um, where we always keep the presenter on screen and then bring their slide up. So that it's three quarters of the screen. So read everything we don't lose that presenter's view, um, and keep that human interface that, uh, we so much need in, in presentations
Speaker 0 00:06:30 Makes perfect sense. I mean, I wouldn't want to look at a slide of, you know, data for five minutes of somebody talking about it. It gets pretty boring. Um, so when we're looking at a project, this is a lot, this is a new world for most people. I mean, we went from hardware, all this gear loaded into a ballroom or an arena or something. Right. And we manage that project in one way. Um, when you're looking at a virtual project and you're saying, okay, here's what we need to manage. How do you do that from start to finish, you know, concept to execution. What's your process that you go through as you do that?
Speaker 2 00:07:07 So my number one thing that I, and this even goes through her before, um, but even more so now is managing the expectations. So my, my start is always finding out what the expectations are of not just the end client, but all the other players in the process. Um, without, without knowing everybody's expectations, it's really hard to pull off a six, eight successful event. Um, and then managing those expectations as we move along along the process. Um, it's always my goal and I try to teach anyone who works with me is, you know, under promise and over deliver. If you can do that, then you'll be successful. Um, so a lot of times, um, in these virtual events, one of the things that we're running into a lot is, uh, having to educate the, in clients of how, how it's going to work. So they'll say I have, you know, five presenters that I want to have on screen at one time.
Speaker 2 00:08:08 So, you know, their assumption is, okay, well we need five channels. So bringing those presenters in that to educate them saying, well, actually we're probably gonna need 10 channels so that if we have your five people on screen, we have five more sitting in the wings. So when those five low way these five come into focus. Okay. Um, so there's a lot of, again, managing those expectations. So they under and, and educating them. So they understand the reasons why we're doing it. We're not just, again, throwing more gear at them that they don't know why we need it.
Speaker 0 00:08:38 So are you coming in, then someone comes to you and says, Hey, Brett, we've got this sales meeting that we need to execute now. Um, you, you set up their expectations. Of course, reminding them, this is not like being in person as we talked about, you know, you're not going to get that feedback. Um, and then they all right, well, we're all ready to go. Um, are you, are you helping them come up with, you know, we know who we're going to deliver to, so we're delivering to a sales sales group, um, then are you helping them create the content that they want, or are you outsourcing that to someone else to, to bring that? Cause they have to have something to share at that point. Right?
Speaker 2 00:09:14 So I do have some graphic designers that I work with, um, which would say Beulah would have been doing the keynotes on normal presentation. So a lot of times I'm setting them up with them so they can actually develop that content. Um, and then I'm usually developing a package that's going to go into, uh, so very rarely, like I was saying earlier, I never do just a full screen of the graphic. So it's always in a PIP, which means I now need a background. That's going to compliment, um, whatever they're presenting or whatever the, the conference might be that we're doing. Okay. So that's so, so it is a whole team.
Speaker 0 00:09:51 Yeah. Yeah. So you bring in, for instance, graphic designer, you say, Hey, I need a PIP that is, you know, whatever, a hundred pixels by whatever in the corner over here. And then you can bring that in and then they've built that into the plan already. So having that, so it's not like we take a 16, nine graphic and just whoop shrink it down, and then there's all this black. Right. We've got to think about that.
Speaker 2 00:10:16 Yeah. We're thinking about what's going around all the sides so that, um, like right now, like when we're doing zoom calls, these days, the zoom call has, you know, an image and then some black space and then maybe a little PIP up in the top. Um, we try to make sure that we utilize that full 60, my nine frame. Um, so it's all branded and it's not, you're not falling out of the brand and looking generic. So we really try to push it to the next level. It's very similar to what you would see on any major news broadcast. If you're watching a panel discussion on CNN or Fox news where they all have a fully branded tickers at the bottom, um, that's actually how we're producing a lot of these virtual events now. Okay. To that same level. Okay.
Speaker 0 00:11:03 Got it. And that, that's something I've been thinking a lot about broadcast. What that, what is that going to look like? I mean, I'm thinking going forward now, most events, I mean, they're going to have to have a broadcast component. It's not going to be, Hey, throw the encoder down and pipe out, whatever is on screen. You know, we're talking a video director that's dedicated to that live stream to that, you know, switching that, right. That part of the project, uh, I mean, does that mean a second set of slides that works for that? Um, however, uh, and I don't know if you've seen this yet, but it seems to me like there's more opportunity there because people that might travel to an event, not everybody can either afford to get the time off, you know, any of that. So, you know, does this open up the opportunity for people to be able to actually give, give more the content that they have as they're creating these, you know, doing these events? It's not just in person anymore. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:12:00 Yeah. It's, uh, especially with, uh, with, what's gonna be going on with international travel over the next couple of years. Um, I see it's going to be very commonplace that, um, that we, yeah, we have to have a webcast component to every event moving forward. Um, and then yeah, a lot of times, and in the past, it's, it has really been that it's when, when I would come in to do webcasts, they would you just say, well, here's a screen feed. Uh, they might give me one camera if I begged for it. Um, and then, uh, and that was it. And I was trying to make a show out of that. Um, but yeah, like you were saying, I think it's going to become more of a focal point to where, you know, having a dedicated camera just for the webcast. That's not being shared by the, um, imag screens and having our own dedicated feeds, um, will become, uh, an important component moving forward.
Speaker 2 00:12:56 So we were telling you, we're telling a different story and that's what a lot of people don't realize. You know, if you're in the room as an audience member, the story you're getting, you can actually see it developing around you. Uh, when you're on a virtual event, you don't have that context. So, um, like for example, uh, doing a tight shot, like we normally do on imag where it's, you know, the cowboy up sort of a camera shot or webcasts, we prefer to have a full body shot so that again, we can get a content of what's going on, where they are and Sage that you don't get when it's a tight shot, like you'd want for imag
Speaker 0 00:13:35 Yeah. Head to toe something bigger. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that all comes into the planning stages then, um, when you're getting like a week out from an event, what are the, what are the things that you are, you know, tightening up graphics, preparing that sort of stuff that you've already been working on for however long, if they give you a whole week or more than a week to prepare, let's put it that way. Um, what else, what are you guys working on there? Is there equipment that you're focused on? Is there any, what else are you testing or looking at during that point in time?
Speaker 2 00:14:11 So a lot of times, uh, that week prior is doing a lot of the backend work where, you know, is the website that it's going to show on. Is that ready? Um, is there any security issues that we need to worry about for that website? Um, yeah. And then, yeah, then testing all the equipment. So, um, we mainly use TriCasters as our main web passing gear. It's basically the Ferrari of a webcasting equipment. So lots of time to see, you know, make sure those are updated to most recent builds, lots of things we're doing test streams. A lot of these platforms while a lot of people don't realize is Facebook changing the way a webcast works on there sometimes daily, sometimes hourly. Um, so we, a lot of times are we'll do test streams day before the day of, uh, and even minutes before we start the real one, we'll do a test private one. And then, you know, literally just 10 minutes before we start and then switch over to the real one, um, as we're starting. So got it. It's such a moving target. So it takes a lot of preparation.
Speaker 0 00:15:22 Bandwidth is huge. Um, you mentioned that testing, I, I hadn't even considered the idea of them changing algorithm, algorithms and code. And I mean, cause they're always trying to optimize these systems to zoom and Skype and teams and everything else that goes within that. Um, have you had, have you had like a big like, Oh, well we tested it yesterday and it was this way. And then today, suddenly we turn it on and like it's all broken.
Speaker 2 00:15:50 Uh, I've had that within an hour. So where we tested it an hour prior and everything worked and then we go, then we go to hit live and suddenly it says you've been logged out and you need to reauthenticate and somehow, or another in that hour, Facebook had pushed update to their, their code, which logged everybody out. Um, and then it actually broke it. So we actually ended up instead of using the Facebook, um, app that's built into the tri casters, we very quickly had to revert to an RTMP, uh, direct stream where we pushed right to Facebook, um, instead of going through their preferred way, which is a built in plugin that they use on the TriCaster. Um, and as that all happened within, like I said, within an hour, it, it worked now our prior than an hour later, we hit go and it doesn't work all of a sudden and you know, what do you do? So now we're frantically trying to, uh, to get it back up. And, uh, we did, um, luckily one thing that I've pushed with all my clients is we never do the, okay, we're going live in three, two, one we're live. It's always, let's do a five or 10 minute pre-show to make sure everything's good and go and golden before, uh, before we actually go live.
Speaker 0 00:17:12 Totally. Okay. And then you go live and you do the show and everybody's happy and theoretically, theoretically is great. And nobody has any complaints.
Speaker 2 00:17:22 Yeah. Yeah. So, and that's actually a, a big, uh, a big point of confusion with a lot of the in clients is everyone seems to think that, you know, I actually just have this with, uh, uh, a big talent agency yesterday. They said, you know, well, we might have, you know, a million people watch this webcast. And I don't know if we have the bandwidth to support that. And people don't realize that you're not connecting directly to that site, that this is all going up to, up to the cloud. And the cloud is handling the bandwidth has nothing to do with your 10 megabit connection at your office, um, where we, we push it up to, uh, it, it really depends. Maybe we're pushing a Facebook or what should be YouTube or Amazon web services or act combine, or any one of a number of CDMs to do that last mile. And they're there supporting the load of the million people.
Speaker 0 00:18:20 Got it. Oh, wow. Okay. Very cool. Um, as we're building out these events, what are you doing to stay organized, um, to help keep all the information flow? You know, you clients presenters, I, you know, like what are you doing to help organize everybody that, that is working on a project?
Speaker 2 00:18:40 Uh, so I live and breathe in a Google documents. Um, so be it Google sheets or, um, actual Google docs, um, Google drive, um, yeah, that's pretty much where I live. I've tried various versions of different software project management software. Um, my problem I always run into is I work with anywhere between a dozen to 20 different producers throughout the course of a year. Yep. And no two producers use the same, anything. So, um, but I've yet to find anyone who doesn't have access to Google, um, Google apps. So I've made some really complex, uh, budgeting and scheduling, um, documents and Google sheets so that, uh, um, they can hop on there and it makes a lot of sense. And, um, yeah, that keeps everyone organized. The other main thing I do is, um, I am a huge, huge fan of, uh, CYA emails, uh, everything, everything I talk about with a client or, um, presenters are backed up with an email to follow up to, you know, Hey, just to clarify, this is what we went over on that phone call, just so we're on the same page. Um, and I, and I save all those emails. There's more than one time. I've had that conversation with a producer where we decided something and then, you know, a month goes by we're on the event. And I do what we decided and they're like, Whoa, Whoa, why are we doing this? And I can always refer back to the email and go, well, here on this email, you, uh, is what you said. You wanted it. So
Speaker 0 00:20:20 Been there, done that. Totally understand. Yeah. Um, are you a, are you a typer or a voice to text person?
Speaker 2 00:20:28 Oh, I type, I, I despise voice attacks. Um, I, I, I, everyone always told me this, that I talk really fast and I tend to mumble here and there, which, Hey, you'll probably hear during this at some point. Um, but, uh, yeah, my diction is not, not the greatest, so a I'm a definitely type it in and, uh, get it, uh, get it all done. And spelled spell check is my friend. So yeah.
Speaker 0 00:20:57 So we go great. I mean, Google docs is fantastic. I know that I use it for cashflow spreadsheets and all kinds of great stuff like that. Um, so everything's managed, everything is organized, put that in quotes because we all know it's like herding cats most of the time. Um, so we get into, and we kind of touched on this a little bit, but rehearsal days, show days, um, how are you managing clients through that? What are you, what are you doing or, or a team let's say, cause I know you and I spoke before about how you have yourself. You have somebody else that's like, you know, over here kind of wrangling clients. Talk to me a little bit about how you run that process rehearsals and then show days for 180 people or whatever the number is.
Speaker 2 00:21:42 Right. Um, so I try to make her that we have very defined positions and re and areas of responsibility. Um, and again, going back to my original comment of managing expectations. Um, so I kind of, uh, I make sure that like my producers, I deal with, I, you know, I tell them very specifically, your job is to deal with the client, find out what their needs are and then communicate that to me. And I will make sure it gets to the right person. Um, my Sage Manders, you know, I usually tell them, you know, this is the, this is the next presenter. Find out what they need, find out what their expectations are of this rehearsal and let me know what those are, and then I'm gonna make sure the rest of the team knows what those are. Uh, so that's, uh, I mean, that's really how I do what I guess, um, for lack of a better way
Speaker 0 00:22:37 You prepping. So ho what are you doing to like, okay, before someone gets switched on to go live, um, you know, you have your TriCaster, that's what switching the show, do you have multiple computers set up where you could like go over to this, you know, computer a and you know, the next presenter who's on deck, you can talk to them physically before they end up getting online.
Speaker 2 00:22:59 So it really depends upon the show and the budget and everything else. Um, but in a perfect world, one of the ones that you and I worked on, for example, you know, we had a, uh, pre-flight station where a presenter could go there. There was a graphic artists sitting there at the ready to go over their slides even seconds before they went live, uh, before we then pushed them over to what was going to be the actual show computer. Yeah. Um, so one of the bonuses of doing a lot of, uh, web based events and, and, uh, events at leverage networks is all my shows are heavily networked. Uh, every single computer is on a network and we can move files between 'em, um, as needed. So the show caller is going to have access to the most recent deck because it's in a sharer folder, um, that pre-flight graphics person has access to those decks and so on and so forth. So that, uh, everything is, is a shared resources. Got it.
Speaker 0 00:24:00 And so then you have, I think you mentioned to me once that you have somebody on, on a, again, budget, all of that stuff, but you have a person that's communicating with presenters, you know, they call, you know, that person calls in 10 minutes before their time slot, and you're looking at their bandwidth and you're checking, Hey, all right, what's your computer working properly? Can you see me? Can you hear me? Um, right.
Speaker 2 00:24:25 Yeah. So yeah, so we do a, we do a pre-check like that and that's what a technical person. Um, so yeah, we're, we're calling them up. Um, and traditionally we do that in another platform, or let me rephrase that this is all brand news. So we're, we're modifying this plan every day. Um, but now we're using a Google or, sorry, not Google, but a Skype group chat where we'll bring all of the presenters in there, uh, for about 30 minutes prior to them coming online. And so we will now have four or five presenters all in this one, Skype chat where they can talk to each other. We're, we're calling it the virtual green room. Um, we found that that really is helpful for the presenters because it gets them used to talking to their camera and interacting with it versus coming in cold, pregnant into the call.
Speaker 2 00:25:15 Uh, we have a producer that sits in the, in that, in that group chat. And as time goes along, um, whoever's managing the people who are on screen will say, Hey, we now need Jordan to come into the broadcast. So we'll say, Hey, Jordan, why don't you go ahead and leave, uh, leave this group chat we're in our production team is going to call you on the broadcast line. And then, so you hang up and we call you. And again, it's using the same Skype, everything. So no chat, no settings have to change. And everything's been, uh, flushed out for the prior 30 minutes. Okay. Um, and then we call you on the production side and now you're into the show system. Oh, very
Speaker 0 00:25:54 Cool. All right. So it's, so it actually is separate. You're not, you know, you're trying to keep those two siloed so that you don't eat up a bunch of bandwidth and other things that could potentially
Speaker 2 00:26:04 Yeah. Uh, and bandwidth requirements on Skype were pretty low. Um, we were actually shocked. We, uh, were looking at our bandwidth usages on, uh, a big webcast. We did for the Smithsonian where we had 180 presenters. And in the course of two days, testing with all 180 presenters from around the world, it, it only used up like less than a gigabit of bandwidth, um, over the two days, uh, versus our webcasts where we were pushing that out a 10 megabit stream, we did a one hour test and we were at like two and a half gigabytes in one hour versus two whole days of testing with Skype had barely touched anything. So, okay. Um, yeah, the compression technology is really good and, uh, but yeah, we keep them as two separate binges so that there is no mat. No, no, mix-ups, there is no, oops. I brought the wrong person over or audio didn't transfer over something. So awesome.
Speaker 0 00:27:01 Um, what are you have a show? What are three things that you need on every show? They can be tangible. They can be intangible doesn't matter, but like just three things. Coffee is one of my three personally for you. What, what are, what are the three things?
Speaker 2 00:27:23 Um, uh, my number one is, again, getting back to the expectations, like just having clear expectations because that's, whenever that that gets missed, that's where things go bad really fast. Yeah. And then following up on that is the communication, like having a communication with everybody, um, that is a pet peeve of mine. Um, you know, it drives it. I'm a very much, uh, I'm not one to dictate. I allow you, I tell you what my expectations are and ill allow you to set your own parameters, um, which sometimes bites people in their butts because they, they, they over promise and then they under deliver. Um, okay.
Speaker 0 00:28:08 I feel like you're referring to something there, Brett. I feel like you're referring to it, dude. It's okay, man. I will, I will willingly and readily admit to my own failures, uh, for those of you that don't know Brett and I did a show earlier last year and we had some massive challenges, um, that, that frankly I did not deliver on what I had said. I would be able to deliver as fast as I expected to deliver on it. And by the end of it, it all worked itself out. Everything was on time showing off grade. It looked amazing, but I learned some very valuable lessons on my end from that. Um, and delivering it and like Brett said, he is great at he'll give you exactly what he needs and what he knows he needs. And then he'll let you hang yourself if you choose to. So, um, not on purpose, you understand what I'm saying? But,
Speaker 2 00:28:59 Um, yeah, I, I try to, uh, I, I've learned that if you play dictator, nothing ends up going well. Um, and people just get upset at being barked at all day, versus if you allow people to, to figure it out on their own and make their own rules, they have a much greater chance of success. Um, so my third thing which follows up on those other two is having a great team. Um, I can honestly say I travel all over the world. I deal with hundreds. If not thousands of stagehands all over the world, the, the bad ones I can probably count on one hand. Yeah. For the most part they're, everyone's great. Everyone wants to do a good job. Um, I've get to walk. I mean, I usually joke at it, but, uh, I usually will ask my crew, you know, Hey, anyone, is this your last show that you're ever going to do?
Speaker 2 00:29:56 And, you know, cause if that, if anyone ever says yes, then I want that personified show because you know, whatever you want on your last show. So, you know, knowing that everyone is playing on still being in this business tomorrow means they're all going to try their best, you know? And, uh, so allow them to do it. Um, the Mo the tangible item, I would say, I will stand, will need on a show is the reliable, calm. I can't tell you how many times it's ju it's usually the thing that everyone doesn't care about. It's the last thing to be set up. Uh, the one thing when budgets get cut, the first thing that they think that they can cut is calm, or they don't want to pay for it with an in client. Um, to me, if you don't have good communication with your crew, uh, the show's doomed to fail. Um, so that's, that's my primary number one physical thing. Um, and then, you know, red vines of red vines are on the show. I'm good. So there we go.
Speaker 0 00:30:53 Perfect. I love that. Um, well, calm, man. I cannot tell you how many times I've had a producer come to me and talk, say, Oh, well, this last show that I did, the calm was terrible, but yet you're right. That's the, Oh, well, it's, it's X amount of dollars we, we could get. I'm like, no, you don't understand calm. That is the show. Um, you know, and back to what we mentioned earlier about, uh, you know, expectations, letting people do their jobs, it, what happened when, when it happened last year, it was a great opportunity for me to help my people and help us learn, uh, some huge lessons and communicate with them on how to effectively communicate with your clients. And I can't be more, um, you know, more appreciative of the fact that, you know, we learned that lesson and, and it has helped us communicate better going forward and give more information and, and help them understand, you know, from our end that it's like, I have to be communicating with my clients. I have to be telling them what's going on because a lot of times they might know what's going on, but they want, they want you as a person to communicate with them. Cause this is, this is a personal thing. I mean, we are person to person. It's not like me to a piece of gear, the gear. Can't talk to you
Speaker 2 00:32:10 So well, it's a lot, lot of times too, like in my position, I can see what's going on. Like, I understand what things aren't going, right. But I'm not, I'm not always a hundred percent sure that my vendor fully understands that or grasp that. Um, I would much rather have a vendor come to me and say, Hey, things aren't going right. Here's what we're doing to rectify it. Um, and then to sit there and, and which I have all the time where they come to me and they try to paint, you know, Rose colored glasses on me to make me think that everything's fine when I can look at it and be like, no, dude, it's not, it's not fine. Um, honesty is like a key and, you know, I have no problem. I, I, I get so many people, uh, one of my fun games I do with a union hands all the time is I'll get a, uh, projections, for example, who will come in and be called in as a protection and said, I, and I'll know that they don't know projection.
Speaker 2 00:33:11 And I'll say, Hey, do you know how to do this, uh, this blend? You know, they all do the same thing. Oh yeah. I was called out here to do it. Of course. I know how to do it. Yeah. You know, they very rarely do. And so I'll let them struggle for the first hour or so. And then, you know, usually go over there and say, Hey, do you want me to give you a hand? Uh, the smart ones say yes, and then I can teach them. And I have no problem. I have no problem taking an hour of my time to teach somebody how to do it, because I know on next year when I have them, they're going to do it. Um, what drives me crazy is when that same person now tells me, Oh, no, no, I have it. You know, you and I both know that that plan should have only taken them in an hour.
Speaker 2 00:33:47 And then they're an hour and they're still trying to, they're, they're missing with the feed and they've not even touched any of the warp settings. So, um, yeah, so this is, you know, the same sort of thing and just, you know, communicate. And if you don't know something, heck raise your hand. Say, I don't know, because the one thing I can tell you, everyone in this industry that I've found, they love to tell you how much they know. So if you, if you go up to somebody and say, I don't know how to do this, there is not a technician out there that who's going to not take the opportunity to show you how smart they are. So, you know, go out there and say, I, I don't know what I'm doing. And I got thrown into this end is going to help me.
Speaker 0 00:34:27 That's a hundred percent, some of the best guys that I know started out that way. And they, you know, I think that being in this industry takes a ton of humility, um, in regards to like knowing what you know, but also knowing even more. So what you don't, because what I don't know is, is honestly what hurts me in the end. And if I'm not willing to fess up and say, Hey, you know what? I tried to figure this out. Um, you know, and something I tell a lot of the people that have worked for me in the past is like, if you can't figure it out in 10 minutes, I'm sure, you know, somebody who does pick up the phone and make a call. You know, if there's a piece of gear, I mean, how many times have you walked into a show where either a, the piece of gear you were told was going to be there, wasn't there and you had something else, or you thought that a piece of gear did something and you were like, you could have swore up and down one side down the other that I know last time I did this.
Speaker 0 00:35:19 And you just can't like, can't remember that sequence. And, and just, you pick up the phone, you make a phone call, you know, somebody who does own it. Exactly. Yeah. Um, and, and I've had guys like struggle for hours and I'm like, I'll walk up to and be like, dude, what's going on? They're like, Oh, I know I can figure this out. Like if you had asked me an hour and a half ago, I could have solved your problem in five minutes and we'd be going home now. Um, so humility,
Speaker 2 00:35:45 I do have a, do you have a lot of fun though on with, uh, one of our mutual clients that I usually just get called into the show caller? So people with that organization don't necessarily know my full background. They don't know the experiences I have. So a lot of fun sometimes where, you know, I've crew guys, you know, trying to pull fast without me. Cause they think I'm just a show caller. And you know, they're trying to tell me how, you know, how led walls work or, or how a webcast works. And, uh, lots of athletes sit back and smile and let them, uh, try. But yeah, smile, smile. It was entertaining.
Speaker 0 00:36:22 Very true, man. We work with a lot of people. Um, and I mean, of course we want to keep those relationships strong and focused, but you know, there's always those times, there's the dips there's companies that stopped doing a meeting or, you know, they scale back their meetings and you lose some business or whatever. What are you doing these days to help find work for you? And, and, you know, get out there, put yourself out there, sales, marketing, whatever you want to call it. What are you doing to be able to enable yourself to get more jobs, keep your schedule full.
Speaker 2 00:36:54 So most of my business, I, I get comes from referrals and by most I would say 99% of it. Um, the way I work is I'm, I'm in basically like an open book of, of information. I take everybody's phone calls when they call and they say, Hey, how do I webcast this? Or, um, how would you design this? Um, I'm the first one that will go out of my way to help somebody figure out how to do something in their show with no expectations, like, you know, anyone's free to call me. And I literally have people from around the world. I'm very active on a lot of different forums and user groups from different equipment. I have people from all the world calling me and say, Hey, I don't understand how this works. Can you explain to me, um, and a lot of those pay dividends then, and I kind look at it as, as planting seeds.
Speaker 2 00:37:48 Uh, so then, you know, down the road, that person is doing another show and maybe they need an extra hand. They're gonna go, Hey, that guy, Brett, he helped me out when I needed it a few weeks ago and I get that phone call. Uh, so that's, uh, really how I find most of my work is, um, again, even with my, in clients, with CEO's and stuff, you know, they'll finish an event and then they, their CEO and say, man, that live event looked great. Who did you use? And then again, they're referring them back over to me and to my team and we come in and, uh, and take care of that.
Speaker 0 00:38:23 Yeah. Top of mind. I mean, that's really what it comes down to, I think. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:38:27 Um, and then the second part of that is if I go back to my earlier years, um, before I wasn't was as well known as I am now is I walked right into production companies. Um, when I first moved to Las Vegas, for example, I walked right into Encore and uh, they said, you know, Hey, we don't, we don't have any jobs for you. We don't know who you are. And I introduced myself to all the account executives and I told them all. I said, Hey, I know AutoCAD really well. If you need any drawings for your shows, even if it's just for a proposal, let me know, I'll do them for free. I've got nothing else I'm doing. So for long time, I did hundreds of drawings. And with one with only one string attached to it was, Hey, if you actually get the job, just put me on the job in some position.
Speaker 2 00:39:15 Um, and that was, and that was a trade off. So I would, I would do a drawing for XYZ conference and then they would call me and go, Hey, we won the bid. What position do you want? And then I would literally just take my position. And so a lot of times it was, you know, back in my early days, I was a lighting designer. So I was designing a lot of the lighting and then I got into video. And so then I put myself on the shows as the video director. So, um, that's one thing that I tell a lot of the newer technician now was find something that was valuable during the bidding process of shows and offer that up. Um, one of my guys, he talks, uh, with a lot of his clients and he says, if he needs somebody to look over the gear list before show, I'll be happy to do it for free and tell you, you know, Hey, by the way you're missing, uh, the Accenture cables we're gonna need for these projectors, um, you know, or a PD that you forgot, uh, that may not be big enough for whatever you're doing.
Speaker 2 00:40:12 Uh, and so those little services that make a huge difference for these account executives bidding these jobs. So they're not obligating, you know, Oh, shoot, I now need a $3,000 distro that I hadn't budgeted for. Yeah. Um, and it takes 10 minutes of his time either it gets put on the show and as an added bonus, he knows the gears. Right? Yep. So how many times have we all walked out of their shows? You know, we walk down there and go, hello, who picked out this gear? This has all the wrong stuff to accomplish what you want. So,
Speaker 0 00:40:42 Yeah, that's great. Um, man value added value is the name of the game these days, for sure. I mean, I've, I myself just answering the phone, answering emails, you're, you're a hundred percent right about that. Everything we can help people with in support is huge. Um, so what do you like most about being in the web stream virtual world? I mean, maybe just being at home and being able to be in your garage, which is possible, but I mean, what do you, what do you like the most about this transition that we're in right now?
Speaker 2 00:41:17 Uh, so for me, um, where we are right now in, in this industry with everyone, basically working from home, uh, things have slowed down a lot. Like the, the pace of everything. Um, on average year prior to this, I would be traveling 260 days a year. Um, wow. Not at home. Um, my wife at this point is wondering, when am I leaving next? Um, she, uh, she's, uh, she's actually enjoying the fact that I'm home as much as I am, um, because the honeydew list is taken care of a little bit quicker than, uh, in the past. Right. So, um, yeah, it's, it's, it's been, it's been different. Um, uh, you know, don't, don't tell the police, but I am still traveling for some jobs here and there I've, uh, consulted with some state governments on their emergency operation centers and had to fly out and fix their, their, uh, broadcast systems
Speaker 0 00:42:24 That, that sounds like essential travel to me, Brett. That's all I'm going to say.
Speaker 2 00:42:28 It, it, it is a technically essential travel. So what an irritating,
Speaker 0 00:42:33 So what do you like the least about, you know, kind of where we find ourselves at the moment,
Speaker 2 00:42:39 I guess it's, uh, the uncertainty it's, uh, it's like, I've talked to a lot of people who will want to do virtual events of web events and consulting on a lot of them, but then how many of them are actually going to pull the trigger and go through with it? Yeah. So every day is kind of looking at it. Um, it's also trying to, um, these virtual events take a lot less crew. I mean, we're talking, we used to do shows you, and I would do shows together with a hundred guys on it. And these virtual events are, you know, two, three, I mean, I think the biggest one I've done so far, we had 10, 10 people working on it. Um, but that same show when it was a real conference would have had a crew of a hundred working on it. So, um, that's, that's, that's been my new thing, uh, is trying to figure out how we can get more work for everybody else out there, um, given the, the lower requirements. So we're yeah, yeah. That's, that's been the tough part is friend Fred, how to, how to get the work for everybody. Yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 0 00:43:46 No, of course. I mean, we're all in this together. Um, you know, it's tough when you don't have opportunities for everybody that you, you know, that you want to have opportunities for. I, I know the feeling completely. Um, so people that want to transition into this world into the webstream world, they, they either they've done it before they've done, Oh, well we did a zoom call and we had some zoom conferences and whatever else, but, um, what can they do going forward to, to get better or be more prepared to jump into this world and do more events, do more virtual events, hybrid events, you know, as, as we progress.
Speaker 2 00:44:28 So the big thing that everyone needs to learn, and this is going to just moving forward in, live in, in any type of event moving forward is networking. Everyone needs to, to learn what an IP address is, what subnet masks are. Um, how do you transverse networks? How do you, you know, what does bandwidth actually mean? Like, everyone's like, Oh, well I've got one gigabit of bandwidth. You know, people, people need to really start learning about what that really means that, you know, um, and how that applies to, to doing these events. Um, yeah. And that's, that's really probably the, the main thing is just, just learning, uh, all the networking aspects, understanding. Yeah. And there's some protocols out there. Uh, NDI is a big one on network devices, interface it's, uh, where you can basically move all your audio, video, everything all over, uh, an internal land network. Um, and then to fall on that, there's a new, there's also SRT, uh, which is secure, reliable transport, which is the same thing as NDI step over the public internet so that you can move, um, you move an entire show over the public internet, switch it from your home and send it right back in real time or a live show.
Speaker 0 00:45:49 Okay. Oh, very cool. Um, awesome. So as we're kind of getting to the end here, I know that one thing that I always end every, every discussion we have about this stuff is, uh, being able to be gig ready, you know, a gig, whether it's at home, whether it's a way, whether it's at the convention center, wherever it is, it doesn't matter. Um, what are two things that our listeners can do to be more gig ready the next time they gig, whether it's next week, next month, next year, um, what can we do to be better the next time?
Speaker 2 00:46:28 Uh, so much like how we started this conversation with a, where they think the very first question is a understand expectations. That's, that's the big one. Um, no matter what your position is, your first job, when you get on that gig, whether that's pre-show or you just walked into the ballroom that morning is asked, what, what do you, what do you expect by the, you know, by the end of this day, by the end of the show, what is the expectation from the person you are reporting to? Yeah. Once you find that out is then figure out how you can exceed that expectation. If, if the goal is, you know, Hey, by the end of the day, we want to have all the equipment up and running, then your goal should be, I want all the equipment up and running, and I want to be not only show ready, but I want to have gone through a run-through before the end of the day. So you want to take what that index allocation is and just go one step further. Um, and if you make that your, your minimum goal, you've now exceeded your, the you're reporting to his goals and you, you made a much better impression that's gonna serve you well into the future.
Speaker 0 00:47:39 Very cool managing expectations, finding the expectations, exceeding expectations. I think expectations might be your favorite word. Um, it, I agree. It's critical. Um, you know, managing people, helping them understand what we want is incredibly important. If they don't know they're just gonna wander aimlessly. And, um, yeah, that's actually one of the things that I've been thinking about a lot lately with those with my employees is, you know, more management in regards to who's in the shop, how are they doing? Like no unsupervised projects. Those execs expectations are always presented because people, as we know will take up however much time you give them to do any given job. So if we set up the expectations, Hey, it needs to be done in four hours, even though it needs to be done in five, they're going to get it done in four, because that's just what happens. It's the nature of the game. That's awesome. Well, as we both know, we're only good as, as good as our last gig. So hopefully we see another one real soon, but, uh, Brett, thanks for taking the time today. I really appreciate it. Really enjoyed it. Um, love talking about webcasting. There's so much more to discuss that we could take hours on end to work, work through and so on. Um, but, uh, thank you so much. I appreciate you taking the time today. It was fantastic.
Speaker 2 00:48:58 Excellent. Thank you.
Speaker 0 00:49:00 Thanks so much for taking the time to listen today. I know that as a professional each and every one of us want to be better tomorrow than we were today. That's why we've created the gig ready podcast. This is a place where professionals can come and look at what they're doing. Look at how they're doing it and get better. Every single day. We are solely value for value. We're not going to take corporate interests. We're not going to take sponsorship money. We want you to get better solely because that's what you want. So please give us some feedback. I want to get better. I want to create better podcasts. I want to create better events, just like you do. So if you have some value, you want to give back ideas, thoughts, questions, even, even the ability to be a little critical at times, I would love to hear from you. Thank you so much. I hope you have a great day. Stay safe out there and stay. Get ready. <inaudible>.
